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Post by laristotle on Jul 26, 2021 12:09:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2021 12:39:42 GMT
I`m pretty sure were done like a dinner. China comes to North America, complete with travel and lifestyle restrictions.
Who needs a social ranking score(like in China) when you`ve got a compliance training device in the form of a virus? We won`t rate people, we`ll cancel them instead, by restricting them from engaging with the public. Very efficient.
It works for the Trudeau mandate both directly and indirectly. Trudeau wants people to feel his control, and if you don`t share his vision he`ll be happy to jam it down your throat.
At this point there are so many people stuck in a retributive state of mind, he has to do nothing, his band of haters will do all the work for him.
So if 20% of Canadians won`t comply, he`ll be happy to set them on the social and financial sidelines. He`s an ideological clusterfuck.
Then we have Mr. Doug Ford saying passports aren`t gonna happen. He`ll be back peddling in October or November when numbers climb from a yet to be detected or defined variant. My crystal ball prediction of the day...
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Post by Die Bullen on Jul 26, 2021 14:06:39 GMT
Although I am not trying to convince anyone to get vaccinated, I did want to share my wife's experience from when she was in Germany a couple months ago.
She said that some individual stores were demanding rapid tests in order to allow you to go in them. For me personally, I'd rather flash a badge than having people stick swabs up my nose every time I try to enter a store. I only hope I can get a European vaccine passport while I am there and that the CDC vaccine cards will be recognized.
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Post by allthumbs56 on Jul 26, 2021 14:11:22 GMT
Is that you, Jim? Yup... Got an invite from another member and decided to join the community. Nice place here. Still visit the for sale section at the other place but that`s about it for GC now. I`m trying to stay out of this convo, yet this topic seems to overshadow all else in our lives so I find it hard to stay out of the discussion. Didn`t mean to poop on your thread man, just killing time as per usual. Nice to have you around
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Post by allthumbs56 on Jul 26, 2021 14:20:00 GMT
So if 20% of Canadians won`t comply, he`ll be happy to set them on the social and financial sidelines. He`s an ideological clusterfuck. My personal thinking is that we need to get that 20% down to 10% or this well-designed virus is gonna keep ripping through people and the whole vaccination push may have been for naught. If breakthrough cases persist as they seem to be doing then it'll come down to management of the sick. Hopefully the vaccines do a better job of curtailing symptoms and we can keep the hospitals operating. Sure hope so - but this is a whole new road and we seem to be damned if we do and damned if we don't.
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Post by Colchar on Jul 26, 2021 14:49:17 GMT
I envy you your democracy. We used to have one. I miss it greatly. America is not a democracy, they just claim to be one. Americans do not elect their president, they merely make a recommendation. The Electoral College elects the president and is under no moral or legal imperative to follow the will of the people as expressed in the election.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2021 15:06:52 GMT
I believe, our biggest concern is mutations, if one forgets all else that is at stake. But I`m not gonna pit one group against another, when some vaccinated people could be asymptomatic. If there is a way this is being determined, I`m unaware of it.
Other strains of Covid(there is a handful), in pre Covid -19 times, weren`t as deadly, but are still wonderful at adaptation. People like to compare polio and smallpox histories to Covid, but I`m not convinced that`s an accurate comparison at all. I am convinced that the global population is now enslaved to pharmaceutical companies. Enslaved is the most accurate term.
I`m not a fan of corporate enslavement.
You`re arguments and concerns are all well founded Chris. Very responsible and astute. Unfortunately, for me, this dystopian event has hit me psychologically in a way that has created personal resentment.
I met a young family walking the beach this morning...one little guy, maybe 6 years old, still wearing his black mask with Bugs Bunny on it.
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Post by allthumbs56 on Jul 26, 2021 16:57:04 GMT
You`re arguments and concerns are all well founded Chris. Very responsible and astute. Unfortunately, for me, this dystopian event has hit me psychologically in a way that has created personal resentment.Personal resentment doesn't offer up much protection - disliking most people is probably more effective
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2021 17:25:08 GMT
You`re arguments and concerns are all well founded Chris. Very responsible and astute. Unfortunately, for me, this dystopian event has hit me psychologically in a way that has created personal resentment.Personal resentment doesn't offer up much protection - disliking most people is probably more effective Disliking or dismissing people isn`t my plan, I would view that as more in line with vaccine cheerleader theory. I`m live and let live, until you but into my business. The passport issue is about what`s, who`s business and what isn`t. I still trust my own critical thinking abilities apparently. Still here...still healthy.
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Post by allthumbs56 on Jul 26, 2021 17:46:49 GMT
Still here...still healthy. Me too. I'm not sure what that means given that our critical thinking differs but let's take it until something better comes along.
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Post by highdeaf on Jul 26, 2021 17:52:00 GMT
Other strains of Covid(there is a handful), in pre Covid -19 times, weren`t as deadly, but are still wonderful at adaptation. People like to compare polio and smallpox histories to Covid, but I`m not convinced that`s an accurate comparison at all. I am convinced that the global population is now enslaved to pharmaceutical companies. Enslaved is the most accurate term. I`m not a fan of corporate enslavement.
I know a number of people feel this way, and I get it. I don't, simply because big pharma and my medical practitioners saved my life 20 years ago when nothing or no one else could. So although I get frustrated with them, I've never had the feeling that my doctor is in cahoots with them to squeeze more and more money out of me. If they can cure a disease, they do that (or try hard). If they can't cure something but can relieve symptoms, I'm aware of that and can choose to use them or not.
With this disease, we will all be given the option of vaxing or boosting. Sadly, the political aspect to all of this (excluding the non-vaxed from a lot of life) is not good in the long run. We need herd immunity, but that doesn't mean 100% buy-in, it means ~80% buy-in. And like SARS 1, it may time itself out. We still have lots to learn, we just have to keep the clock running as we get there.
Of course this whole frickin' last 18 months could have been eliminated or greatly minimized, if one political body thought it more important to limit it's spread than to make sure every economy suffered like theirs would. That is an international crime of significant magnitude right there - but they've convinced us that they are a 3rd world, developing nation. Just don't look at their military (now the biggest in the world, I believe) or their new spacestation. They don't act they way they talk, but we're the ones dumb enough to buy it.
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Post by allthumbs56 on Jul 26, 2021 18:15:41 GMT
I think the medical and scientific world is surprised that this virus is not behaving like the others before it - variants in particular. If this did, then it would be over by now as past variants had proven to be weaker than the original. This time the variants are worse than the original. As I understand it if we were still dealing with Alpha it would have all been over by now. Now were wringing our hands over Delta - what the heck is behind Door #3?
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Post by allthumbs56 on Jul 26, 2021 21:04:34 GMT
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Post by highdeaf on Jul 27, 2021 16:47:55 GMT
I think the medical and scientific world is surprised that this virus is not behaving like the others before it - variants in particular. If this did, then it would be over by now as past variants had proven to be weaker than the original. This time the variants are worse than the original. As I understand it if we were still dealing with Alpha it would have all been over by now. Now were wringing our hands over Delta - what the heck is behind Door #3?
I think this is largely because of the way people travel all over the world now, unlike 100 years ago and even more than we did 30 years ago. Our international air travel is a virus' best friend. We are the variants enabler.
So that's 2-0, airlines v society. It's one of the most polluting forms of travel (while remaining mysteriously out of that conversation - gotta go after them damn pick-up trucks first LOL) and it leads to massive super-spreading.
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bzrkrage
Burnt Rock Star
“Alive and kicking” Simple Minds (Once Upon A Time. 30 September 1985)
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Post by bzrkrage on Aug 2, 2021 15:17:53 GMT
In their defense, it is only "water" (poke the bear)
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Post by allthumbs56 on Aug 9, 2021 19:59:58 GMT
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Post by george on Aug 9, 2021 22:23:36 GMT
The Blue Ribbon Hog from the NDP as squaking about "I don't take lightly people's charter rights." She's a fuckin dumbass and would be more useful if she was hooked up to a plow; the charter contains a right to securety of the person which would trump the right of Jimmy Super-Spreader to take his show on the road and infect 20 people in a grocery store because he's all SJW about "muh freedums."
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Post by laristotle on Aug 9, 2021 23:14:37 GMT
The Blue Ribbon Hog from the NDP as squaking about "I don't take lightly people's charter rights." She's a fuckin dumbass and would be more useful if she was hooked up to a plow
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Post by allthumbs56 on Aug 10, 2021 1:29:35 GMT
I think passports will happen but they will need to be at the federal level based on an agreed upon international acceptance criteria.
How they may be employed at the local level should depend entirely on the evolving state of the virus and the effectiveness of the various vaccines.
The purpose should be to protect people - not exclude them - unless it proves necessary to do so.
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Post by george on Aug 10, 2021 2:12:30 GMT
There will be a percentage who will refuse no matter what and how big of a deal that is will depend on the variants. It seems likely that delta will be a problem but the governments here have yet to do anything proactive so look for a good time when the fourth wave hits. Might be a good few years before we know where this is going long term as in will it keep getting worse or stabilize and become endemic.
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Post by laristotle on Aug 15, 2021 12:43:18 GMT
Here are two big unanswered vax passport questions Question one: How many doses will be required? It’s not surprising that most Canadians currently shrug off the idea of a vaccine passport because most Canadians – 70% – are what we for now are calling “fully vaccinated”. They likely see such a measure as little more than an endorsement of the choice they’ve made, and a government stamp of approval that they are one of the safe ones.
But would support for such a passport erode if people learned that, come the fall, their QR code will only be valid if they have three doses?
Here’s the other big question: Recently a friend of mine who is easygoing about the introduction of these passports shrugged it off by saying that if this is what has to be done for a year or two, then so be it. But, hold on a second, is that in fact what we’re talking about here? Just a year or two?
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Post by allthumbs56 on Aug 15, 2021 16:24:47 GMT
Here are two big unanswered vax passport questions Question one: How many doses will be required? It’s not surprising that most Canadians currently shrug off the idea of a vaccine passport because most Canadians – 70% – are what we for now are calling “fully vaccinated”. They likely see such a measure as little more than an endorsement of the choice they’ve made, and a government stamp of approval that they are one of the safe ones.
But would support for such a passport erode if people learned that, come the fall, their QR code will only be valid if they have three doses?
Here’s the other big question: Recently a friend of mine who is easygoing about the introduction of these passports shrugged it off by saying that if this is what has to be done for a year or two, then so be it. But, hold on a second, is that in fact what we’re talking about here? Just a year or two? Personally I think the answers are easy if you've been vaccinated already. You've bought into the program, you know that things are evolving, and you're prepared to go the distance to wrestle this sucker down whatever it takes. Lockdowns aren't a solution. If you want to see how effective hiding from the virus is just take a look at Taiwan - they locked up tight and did not vaccinate and now covid is running rampant through an unvaccinated population. Doing nothing and hoping for it to be over is not a strategy. Getting vaccinated is at least doing something. I've potentially invested my life in solving this - as have many millions of others. Two doses is what we think will do it right now - but if it requires three or ten then so be it - at least I did my bit. In for a penny - in for a pound.
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Post by laristotle on Aug 15, 2021 17:12:27 GMT
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Post by infant on Aug 16, 2021 0:48:40 GMT
I was just on Facebook Marketplace and saw an ad for someone looking for someone to share the rent on a house. I’m kinda looking for something for my daughter. The kicker here is that the poster doesn’t want a vaccinated roommate as she seems to be afraid of what a vaccinated person might transmit to her….at least that’s what I get out of this.
“Room in west Hamilton near McMaster for rent Oct 1 Huge yard office room and art room to share. Shared kitchen and living room. I work from home for the most part but am mostly in my room working or away on trips.
.Please no offence but must be un jabbed as I do not trust the experimental jab and we don't know enough about transmission to the unjabbed. I also do not wear a mask (I am healthy and have an immune system) so if either of these things make you uncomfortable then this is not going to be a good fit.
Sorry but has to be that way as it is my personal feeling and essentially my home.”
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Post by Die Bullen on Aug 16, 2021 6:06:17 GMT
I was just on Facebook Marketplace and saw an ad for someone looking for someone to share the rent on a house. I’m kinda looking for something for my daughter. The kicker here is that the poster doesn’t want a vaccinated roommate as she seems to be afraid of what a vaccinated person might transmit to her….at least that’s what I get out of this. “Room in west Hamilton near McMaster for rent Oct 1 Huge yard office room and art room to share. Shared kitchen and living room. I work from home for the most part but am mostly in my room working or away on trips.
.Please no offence but must be un jabbed as I do not trust the experimental jab and we don't know enough about transmission to the unjabbed. I also do not wear a mask (I am healthy and have an immune system) so if either of these things make you uncomfortable then this is not going to be a good fit.
Sorry but has to be that way as it is my personal feeling and essentially my home.”That's pretty bizarre, discrimination against the vaccinated....
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Post by laristotle on Aug 16, 2021 11:56:25 GMT
I know that this is political in nature (the whole thread is actually, if you think about it) and if any object, I'll request it moved or deleted. Let's talk about who could be harmed by domestic vax passports“The fact is that 80 per cent of those aged 12 and older have already received at least one dose of vaccine. By that measure, we can infer that a supermajority of actual voters have been inoculated,” says Donolo.
“Anyone who has ever advised a political leader will tell you that when you have an issue that roughly 80 per cent of the electorate agree on, you have a winner – especially if your main opponent won’t touch it.”
What Donolo is roughly describing here is what political scientists call a “tyranny of the majority.” He seems to believe that 80% of Canadian adults who are vaccinated will happily run roughshod on the 20% of the population who are hesitant to get vaccinated.
In data obtained by True North, Statistics Canada observes that “certain sub-groups in Canada are more likely to report COVID-19 vaccine hesitancy. These include black Canadians, Indigenous peoples, newcomers, and younger adults, among others.”
With that in mind, will the Liberals really stake their election hopes on a pledge that may end up marginalizing certain Canadians by banning them from public places and demonizing them throughout the election?
Is Trudeau prepared to fire any black civil servants or remove any First Nations band councillors who refuse to get vaccinated? Is he willing to impose a policy that will further harm these already marginalized groups?
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Post by highdeaf on Aug 16, 2021 13:52:22 GMT
I know that this is political in nature (the whole thread is actually, if you think about it) and if any object, I'll request it moved or deleted. Let's talk about who could be harmed by domestic vax passports“The fact is that 80 per cent of those aged 12 and older have already received at least one dose of vaccine. By that measure, we can infer that a supermajority of actual voters have been inoculated,” says Donolo.
“Anyone who has ever advised a political leader will tell you that when you have an issue that roughly 80 per cent of the electorate agree on, you have a winner – especially if your main opponent won’t touch it.”
What Donolo is roughly describing here is what political scientists call a “tyranny of the majority.” He seems to believe that 80% of Canadian adults who are vaccinated will happily run roughshod on the 20% of the population who are hesitant to get vaccinated.
In data obtained by True North, Statistics Canada observes that “certain sub-groups in Canada are more likely to report COVID-19 vaccine hesitancy. These include black Canadians, Indigenous peoples, newcomers, and younger adults, among others.”
With that in mind, will the Liberals really stake their election hopes on a pledge that may end up marginalizing certain Canadians by banning them from public places and demonizing them throughout the election?
Is Trudeau prepared to fire any black civil servants or remove any First Nations band councillors who refuse to get vaccinated? Is he willing to impose a policy that will further harm these already marginalized groups?
Trudeau? LOL His most complicated decisions are "argyle or striped socks" and "beard or no beard" (actually, I doubt he made that one himself). The heavy lifting is done by the people who really run this country, Butts and Telford. And they don't seem to mind inflicting great damage to get to their woke destination - just look at Ontario's energy sector (and economy in general).
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Post by allthumbs56 on Aug 16, 2021 14:32:17 GMT
I was just on Facebook Marketplace and saw an ad for someone looking for someone to share the rent on a house. I’m kinda looking for something for my daughter. The kicker here is that the poster doesn’t want a vaccinated roommate as she seems to be afraid of what a vaccinated person might transmit to her….at least that’s what I get out of this. “Room in west Hamilton near McMaster for rent Oct 1 Huge yard office room and art room to share. Shared kitchen and living room. I work from home for the most part but am mostly in my room working or away on trips.
.Please no offence but must be un jabbed as I do not trust the experimental jab and we don't know enough about transmission to the unjabbed. I also do not wear a mask (I am healthy and have an immune system) so if either of these things make you uncomfortable then this is not going to be a good fit.
Sorry but has to be that way as it is my personal feeling and essentially my home.”Stupid is as stupid does. I posted this on the other thread but it so applies I'll repeat it here. ca.yahoo.com/news/column-cant-blame-unmasked-unvaccinated-100018514.html"I can tone down my anger at those who have understandable reasons or fears, or who remain open to learning more. If berating and blaming them is counterproductive, then I’m willing to forgo it. But I am not in a mood to forgive those who are spreading misinformation, scaring others or politicizing the pandemic. Such as the 12 people who, according to the Center for Countering Digital Hate, account for 54% of the misleading claims and flat-out lies about vaccines on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. They have a combined following of 59 million people."If that above is true then I can think of twelve people who seriously need to be run out of town on a rail.
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Post by Die Bullen on Aug 16, 2021 19:24:42 GMT
The truth is, it is going to go the way it is in Europe now. Either you will get a vaccine passport or have to carry your vaccine card around with you, or they will require negative tests to enter certain businesses. My sister in law said she gets tested now 3 times per week. She still refuses to get vaccinated- she had covid but very mild case. Admittedly getting tested constantly would wear me down
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Post by allthumbs56 on Aug 16, 2021 20:05:28 GMT
The truth is, it is going to go the way it is in Europe now. Either you will get a vaccine passport or have to carry your vaccine card around with you, or they will require negative tests to enter certain businesses. My sister in law said she gets tested now 3 times per week. She still refuses to get vaccinated- she had covid but very mild case. Admittedly getting tested constantly would wear me down Do you not pay to get tested? That'd wear me down even faster - unless the end of the pandemic was guaranteed to be just around the corner.
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