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Post by allthumbs56 on Jul 20, 2021 20:37:59 GMT
Well, it looks like we're approaching the point where everybody who is gonna get vaccinated has already or will soon. Then the only thing to do is to open the gates and let the chips fall as they may. I'm with you. Those who refused to get vaccinated simply won't budge at this point unless they are literally forced to My in-laws in SC are "Refusers". Every time my wife tries to discuss it with them they find another reason to say no. They latch on to every conspiracy out there. I fear that Delta will run rampant through their under-vaccinated area.
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Post by laristotle on Jul 20, 2021 21:50:37 GMT
Tossing out labels like refusers, hesitants and conspiracy nuts, are not going to do much to change a person's mind regarding the vaccine. In fact, they may dig their heels in deeper. For many that are unsure there may be multiple reasons for their decision. Not everyone believes the narrative 'get the shot, you'll be fine'. There have been many scientists, experts, virologists, even scientists working in the manufacturing facilities that produce the vaccines that have raised valid concerns over it. Unfortunately, I can't find links anymore of what I've read/viewed because they've been deleted.
Conspiracy? I believe that the main reason some people have not taken the 'jab' yet is that these vaccines have only been released through the Emergency Use Authorization of the FDA and has not yet been approved by them. They read about side effects and other reactions, including death and that would make one leery, I'd imagine. It's like if I were to invite y'all over and there's a bowl of M&M's on the table. I'll say 'help yourselves, but there may be one poisoned M&M in there'. Eric Clapton discusses his anti-vaccination stance: “My greatest fear is what will happen to my kids”
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Post by infant on Jul 20, 2021 23:05:21 GMT
My nephews father in law received his 2nd Pfizer shot a few days before I received mine (about 3 weeks ago). About 3 days after the shot, he started feeling nauseous and developed a fever which would not go away. He went to see his doctor and was told that it would pass and to keep taking aspirin. Last week his fever jumped to 104F and so they took him to the hospital. They kept him there for a couple of days and them rushed him to a Toronto hospital where they did a full barrage of tests which came back inconclusive. They sent him home yesterday and told him that he must have just had a bad reaction to the vaccine. The funny thing is that he had no reaction at all after the first jab.
Other than my SIL and BIL feeling sick for a couple of days after their 2nd shot, this gentleman is the only person I know that has had a severe reaction to the jab. Everyone else has just had a sore arm or maybe a low grade fever for a day.
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Post by Die Bullen on Jul 21, 2021 0:12:35 GMT
Tossing out labels like refusers, hesitants and conspiracy nuts, are not going to do much to change a person's mind regarding the vaccine. In fact, they may dig their heels in deeper. For many that are unsure there may be multiple reasons for their decision. Not everyone believes the narrative 'get the shot, you'll be fine'. There have been many scientists, experts, virologists, even scientists working in the manufacturing facilities that produce the vaccines that have raised valid concerns over it. Unfortunately, I can't find links anymore of what I've read/viewed because they've been deleted.
Conspiracy? I believe that the main reason some people have not taken the 'jab' yet is that these vaccines have only been released through the Emergency Use Authorization of the FDA and has not yet been approved by them. They read about side effects and other reactions, including death and that would make one leery, I'd imagine. It's like if I were to invite y'all over and there's a bowl of M&M's on the table. I'll say 'help yourselves, but there may be one poisoned M&M in there'. Eric Clapton discusses his anti-vaccination stance: “My greatest fear is what will happen to my kids”The fact that certain vaccines have the subjects of coordinated smear campaigns by governments and the media doesn't help either. Once the panic has been released and the confidence of a vaccine has been undermined, the genie cannot put be back in the bottle.
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Post by allthumbs56 on Jul 21, 2021 0:36:21 GMT
Tossing out labels like refusers, hesitants and conspiracy nuts, are not going to do much to change a person's mind regarding the vaccine. In fact, they may dig their heels in deeper. For many that are unsure there may be multiple reasons for their decision. Not everyone believes the narrative 'get the shot, you'll be fine'. There have been many scientists, experts, virologists, even scientists working in the manufacturing facilities that produce the vaccines that have raised valid concerns over it. Unfortunately, I can't find links anymore of what I've read/viewed because they've been deleted.
Conspiracy? I believe that the main reason some people have not taken the 'jab' yet is that these vaccines have only been released through the Emergency Use Authorization of the FDA and has not yet been approved by them. They read about side effects and other reactions, including death and that would make one leery, I'd imagine. It's like if I were to invite y'all over and there's a bowl of M&M's on the table. I'll say 'help yourselves, but there may be one poisoned M&M in there'. Eric Clapton discusses his anti-vaccination stance: “My greatest fear is what will happen to my kids”I think "Refuser" is an excellent label. It doesn't indicate why - just that they are saying "No". Calling my in-laws in SC that is quite kind. They moved from Canada about 10 years ago and have become the poster children of rednecks right down to a gun in their pocket when they go to the store, believing that Trump won, and that there is a microchip in every injection
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Post by johnreardon on Jul 21, 2021 8:14:36 GMT
Well, it looks like we're approaching the point where everybody who is gonna get vaccinated has already or will soon. Then the only thing to do is to open the gates and let the chips fall as they may. I'm with you. Those who refused to get vaccinated simply won't budge at this point unless they are literally forced to Don't agree with forcing them, however, do agree with those businesses that will only allow double jabbed in to attend crowd nightclubs, at least for the time being
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Post by Die Bullen on Jul 21, 2021 12:19:25 GMT
I'm with you. Those who refused to get vaccinated simply won't budge at this point unless they are literally forced to Don't agree with forcing them, however, do agree with those businesses that will only allow double jabbed in to attend crowd nightclubs, at least for the time being The truth is, the more rights a government takes away from the unvaccinated, the more they are effectively forcing the populations to comply. This was always a concern of mine, that the government would slowly peel rights away until we complied.
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Post by johnreardon on Jul 21, 2021 12:35:52 GMT
Don't agree with forcing them, however, do agree with those businesses that will only allow double jabbed in to attend crowd nightclubs, at least for the time being The truth is, the more rights a government takes away from the unvaccinated, the more they are effectively forcing the populations to comply. This was always a concern of mine, that the government would slowly peel rights away until we complied. I think they are more concerned at the 'unclean', as they will become to be known as, are spreading it.
Seriously our Gov are in a quandary of whatever they do will be seen as wrong by some people. It's better to be strict and then they can absolve blame.
I also think businesses are worried about potential litigation down the road.
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Post by allthumbs56 on Jul 21, 2021 13:31:06 GMT
Perhaps more would be willing to get vaccinated if the FDA fully approved the vaccines for general use instead of "emergency". I mean with 2/3rds of the population (350 million doses in the U.S) have been vaccinated - it is kinda more "general" than "emergency" at this point.
That would certainly remove one of the bigger objections/excuses.
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Post by Die Bullen on Jul 21, 2021 13:31:18 GMT
The truth is, the more rights a government takes away from the unvaccinated, the more they are effectively forcing the populations to comply. This was always a concern of mine, that the government would slowly peel rights away until we complied. I think they are more concerned at the 'unclean', as they will become to be known as, are spreading it.
Seriously our Gov are in a quandary of whatever they do will be seen as wrong by some people. It's better to be strict and then they can absolve blame.
I also think businesses are worried about potential litigation down the road.
It is a lose lose no matter what they do. You force people to get vaccinated by law and long term effects from the vaccine are identified in 2 years imagine the firestorm. Do nothing and infection rates will continue to rise.
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Post by allthumbs56 on Jul 21, 2021 14:24:04 GMT
I think they are more concerned at the 'unclean', as they will become to be known as, are spreading it. Seriously our Gov are in a quandary of whatever they do will be seen as wrong by some people. It's better to be strict and then they can absolve blame.
I also think businesses are worried about potential litigation down the road.
It is a lose lose no matter what they do. You force people to get vaccinated by law and long term effects from the vaccine are identified in 2 years imagine the firestorm. Do nothing and infection rates will continue to rise. I got vaccinated too. I think I'll be more concerned about my own situation than giving the hold outs the satisfaction of telling them that they were right. And those 10% who never got jabbed? They're gonna have a heck of a time with us all in the hospital or needing to be buried
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Post by Sinster on Jul 21, 2021 14:36:34 GMT
I think they are more concerned at the 'unclean', as they will become to be known as, are spreading it.
Seriously our Gov are in a quandary of whatever they do will be seen as wrong by some people. It's better to be strict and then they can absolve blame.
I also think businesses are worried about potential litigation down the road.
It is a lose lose no matter what they do. You force people to get vaccinated by law and long term effects from the vaccine are identified in 2 years imagine the firestorm. Do nothing and infection rates will continue to rise. I agree it's a lose, lose situation.
The vaccine isn't new it's been in works before C19, the red tape to get it approved was dropped and that's how we got the vaccine so quickly. I think Pfizer is suppose to get the vaccine approved shortly.
BTW all vaccine were "new" at one point. Polio, Measles, and Small Pox were almost eradicated, but now they are starting to pop up because of the misinformation that the Anti-Vaxers are latching onto. The internet is just making is worse and now people think they are experts because they can google. Here in the states in order to go to public schools you need to be vaccinated and it was very rare to hear parents protest about having their children vaccinated before the internet.
There was a stat on my local news about vaccinated people getting C19. They had 4.5million got the vaccine and out of those .1% got C19 and out of that 1/10 of % 8% of them ended up in the hospital and or died.
I look at it at this way. If I had a 95-99% chance of winning the powerball (lottery). I'm going with those % unlike others who Googled and found that there is a 1-5% you might lose. So they don't play.
Don't get a vaccine passport, but don't bitch because another country or private place of business requires it.
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Post by allthumbs56 on Jul 21, 2021 15:36:33 GMT
I just saw a clip of Boris Johnson talking about the UK reopening. He stated that nightclubs are now fully open - but only to people who are fully vaccinated. That alone may drive millions of young folks to get jabbed. It's one thing to be young and think you're invincible - it's another to not be allowed to party with your friends or hook up with a pretty girl. Perhaps they should change the name from "Vaccine Passport" to "License to Party".
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Post by johnreardon on Jul 21, 2021 15:57:25 GMT
I just saw a clip of Boris Johnson talking about the UK reopening. He stated that nightclubs are now fully open - but only to people who are fully vaccinated. That alone may drive millions of young folks to get jabbed. It's one thing to be young and think you're invincible - it's another to not be allowed to party with your friends or hook up with a pretty girl. Perhaps they should change the name from "Vaccine Passport" to "License to Party". Not quite true. At the moment you can get in with proof of double jab or a negative covid test. That is planned to change from the Autumn (Sep) to the negative test will not get you in. There are many objections from MPs and businesses, so wouldn't be surprised if it changes.
Eric Clapton has just issued a statement to say he won't play in front of audiences that are discriminated
Attachments:
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Post by allthumbs56 on Jul 21, 2021 17:04:51 GMT
I just saw a clip of Boris Johnson talking about the UK reopening. He stated that nightclubs are now fully open - but only to people who are fully vaccinated. That alone may drive millions of young folks to get jabbed. It's one thing to be young and think you're invincible - it's another to not be allowed to party with your friends or hook up with a pretty girl. Perhaps they should change the name from "Vaccine Passport" to "License to Party". Not quite true. At the moment you can get in with proof of double jab or a negative covid test. That is planned to change from the Autumn (Sep) to the negative test will not get you in. There are many objections from MPs and businesses, so wouldn't be surprised if it changes.
Eric Clapton has just issued a statement to say he won't play in front of audiences that are discriminated
Clapton is pretty much looking a bit absurd these days. I watched his video a while back. He had a bad reaction - not a visit from God. Celebrities are not the best role models. I wouldn't go to his concert if that's how he feels. We won't miss each other
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Post by Die Bullen on Jul 21, 2021 17:53:26 GMT
I just saw a clip of Boris Johnson talking about the UK reopening. He stated that nightclubs are now fully open - but only to people who are fully vaccinated. That alone may drive millions of young folks to get jabbed. It's one thing to be young and think you're invincible - it's another to not be allowed to party with your friends or hook up with a pretty girl. Perhaps they should change the name from "Vaccine Passport" to "License to Party". Not quite true. At the moment you can get in with proof of double jab or a negative covid test. That is planned to change from the Autumn (Sep) to the negative test will not get you in. There are many objections from MPs and businesses, so wouldn't be surprised if it changes.
Eric Clapton has just issued a statement to say he won't play in front of audiences that are discriminated
Truth is that the venue is on the hook if there is a super-spreader event- easy for Clapton to say this as he won't be personally sued. What he's trying to do is pretty self-righteous if you ask me. Many people probably weren't dead chuffed to get the shot- I wasn't but I knew I had to...
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Post by johnreardon on Jul 21, 2021 17:58:02 GMT
Not quite true. At the moment you can get in with proof of double jab or a negative covid test. That is planned to change from the Autumn (Sep) to the negative test will not get you in. There are many objections from MPs and businesses, so wouldn't be surprised if it changes.
Eric Clapton has just issued a statement to say he won't play in front of audiences that are discriminated
Clapton is pretty much looking a bit absurd these days. I watched his video a while back. He had a bad reaction - not a visit from God. Celebrities are not the best role models. I wouldn't go to his concert if that's how he feels. We won't miss each other It’s not just him. Loads of other musical people, including Van Morrison & Andrew Lloyd Webber. It’s people like these that may convince our U.K. gov to rethink. They don’t give a monkeys for people like us
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Post by laristotle on Jul 21, 2021 18:13:22 GMT
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Post by allthumbs56 on Jul 21, 2021 18:30:06 GMT
Clapton is pretty much looking a bit absurd these days. I watched his video a while back. He had a bad reaction - not a visit from God. Celebrities are not the best role models. I wouldn't go to his concert if that's how he feels. We won't miss each other It’s not just him. Loads of other musical people, including Van Morrison & Andrew Lloyd Webber. It’s people like these that may convince our U.K. gov to rethink. They don’t give a monkeys for people like us I don't know what's up the road but right now I wouldn't surround myself with unvaccinated people. The book on Covid is still being written. Speaking for myself I would pass on concerts by these entertainers right now. Even if Van promised to sing Brown-eyed Girl to me.
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Post by allthumbs56 on Jul 21, 2021 18:47:30 GMT
Are you using this by way of comparison to Covid? As far as I recall, Swine Flu in 76' was never a pandemic. Did it even kill anybody? Actually, I looked it up. 32 people died.
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Post by Die Bullen on Jul 21, 2021 18:55:10 GMT
My main concern is that as the virus continues to spread through the unvaccinated population it will be given a greater chance to morph into something that the existing vaccines can no longer deal with. If that happens we'll end up in a rinse and repeat cycle. I think we're already there,,,
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Post by allthumbs56 on Jul 21, 2021 19:28:13 GMT
My main concern is that as the virus continues to spread through the unvaccinated population it will be given a greater chance to morph into something that the existing vaccines can no longer deal with. If that happens we'll end up in a rinse and repeat cycle. This is where the rights of the many outweigh the rights of the few. Don't be getting me sick and don't be taking up a hospital bed that I might need to keep me alive for some other reason. Otherwise you're welcome to demonstrate how superior your immune system is to mine (it isn't) and take joy in how advanced your intelligence is over mine (it isn't). May Darwin watch over you.
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Post by laristotle on Jul 21, 2021 21:12:54 GMT
Are you using this by way of comparison to Covid? As far as I recall, Swine Flu in 76' was never a pandemic. Did it even kill anybody? Actually, I looked it up. 32 people died. Not the pandemic so much as the lack of information that governments let out .. or retain, so as to 'not panic the public'. As you stated, 'the book on covid is still being written'. Many counter arguments have been deleted or suppressed that may or may not be true. Writing them off as 'conspiracy' or 'misinformation'. What if, down the road, they turn out to be true? The world is just now questioning the possibility of a lab leak, whereas during the early days, that talk was labelled as being racist towards the CCP.
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Post by laristotle on Jul 22, 2021 12:03:46 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2021 13:28:22 GMT
"This is where the rights of the many outweigh the rights of the few. Don't be getting me sick and don't be taking up a hospital bed that I might need to keep me alive for some other reason."
I could say the same thing for everybody who smokes, drinks, over eats...and the list goes on and on.
You gonna spank em` all so that you have the resources you paid for at hand when needed?
Maybe if our public health system didn`t suck up all the money in delivering services, you might not have to worry about there only being 1 I.C.U. bed for every thousand Canadians. Why don`t you bitch about that instead of shaming others into what you believe to be true? At this point everyone`s drawn their own conclusions, so I don`t know what you`re trying to prove. There`s lots of doubtful info floating around regarding anything Covid related, but the lack of I.C.U. beds in Canada isn`t up for debate.
I don`t ignore any of the information that comes out regarding vaccines or infection rates. But I have noticed that the pro vaccine crowd really can`t stand any data that does not support this en masse delusion.
The movement to supress information from credible sources that throw shade on infection rates, asymptomatic rates, sources and PCR test levels etc., is very aggressive. It`s suspicious.
Get the shot or don`t, it maters not to me, but I will make sure to not go near any cess pools of overpopulation to ensure that I put no one at risk.
"This is where the rights of the many outweigh the rights of the few."
I thank God that you don`t get to make that choice.
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Post by allthumbs56 on Jul 22, 2021 14:14:57 GMT
Seriously? Perhaps you could share some of your data sources. I can be swayed.
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Post by Sinster on Jul 22, 2021 14:58:13 GMT
Pretty much every approved drug to help or cure whatever carries some kind of risk.
You do you and hopefully those who think that the vaccine isn't for them don't get C19.
My 51 years on this planet, not once have I heard of anyone personally dying from the flu. I know seven people personally who have died or family members have died because C19.
I myself got C19 and luckily for me I only lost my taste and smell for about 3 days. The Lyme disease I got last year was worse. I don't know what if any long term damage the C19 is going to give.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2021 15:23:05 GMT
Seriously? Perhaps you could share some of your data sources. I can be swayed. Source wars prove nothing when the government, MSM, and corporations in the tech sector have invested so much time and effort in selling their interpretation of how to survive this problem. If I offered anything I`m sure you could find a talking head looking for a grant, or a medical journal article to refute any claims that darken the plot. This isn`t a cop out, and I can think of a couple of very long interviews that are very compelling...but it`s pointless in my mind, casue as I said before, I think everyone has already made up their mind. I live around a group of both vaccinated and unvaccinated people. The vaccinated don`t shame the unvaccinated. The unvaccinated don`t raise doubts in the minds of those who are already vaccinated to casue them worry. It`s how we get along and respect each other. We also don`t discuss it with anyone we meet in public, it`s unnecessary, and frankly none of their business. Those who aren`t batshit crazy know we have a new disease in our midst, but it could have been handled in way in Canada that was more advantageous to the citizens. All I`m saying is don`t be too sure that the song you`re singing doesn`t come with updated lyrics down the road. I`m hesitant to speak, but some in the vaccinated majority, are becoming like a rank mob after Frankenstein. They worry me. Good day fine sir.
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Post by laristotle on Jul 22, 2021 15:28:58 GMT
Pretty much every approved drug to help or cure whatever carries some kind of risk. Precisely. For the past year, there have been conflicting announcements regarding the vaccines from the experts. 'Take this. No .. don't take that. It's alright to take that now. Wait .. we're not sure about that again. Don't mix them. Um, yeah, you can mix n' match' etc. So did I. X-mas day, '19. Was down for close to three weeks. Never been that bad my entire life. Announcements by experts were also made that if one recovered from covid, then to not take the vaccine. Then changed again. Nor the vaccines. For me, and I assume many others, there is not enough valid, concrete information to make a comfortable decision at this time.
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Post by allthumbs56 on Jul 22, 2021 15:49:07 GMT
Seriously? Perhaps you could share some of your data sources. I can be swayed. Source wars prove nothing when the government, MSM, and corporations in the tech sector have invested so much time and effort in selling their interpretation of how to survive this problem. If I offered anything I`m sure you could find a talking head looking for a grant, or a medical journal article to refute any claims that darken the plot. This isn`t a cop out, and I can think of a couple of very long interviews that are very compelling...but it`s pointless in my mind, casue as I said before, I think everyone has already made up their mind. I live around a group of both vaccinated and unvaccinated people. The vaccinated don`t shame the unvaccinated. The unvaccinated don`t raise doubts in the minds of those who are already vaccinated to casue them worry. It`s how we get along and respect each other. We also don`t discuss it with anyone we meet in public, it`s unnecessary, and frankly none of their business. Those who aren`t batshit crazy know we have a new disease in our midst, but it could have been handled in way in Canada that was more advantageous to the citizens. All I`m saying is don`t be too sure that the song you`re singing doesn`t come with updated lyrics down the road. I`m hesitant to speak, but some in the vaccinated majority, are becoming like a rank mob after Frankenstein. They worry me. Good day fine sir. Try me - I read up daily on what's available and I could certainly welcome anything new on the "Don't get vaccinated side" - it seems that all I get from my SIL in SC is the same things she's been posting/sending me for the past six months. Meanwhile the "Pro-vax" data seems to grow more compelling daily. I do pay attention to this stuff and chart all the trending numbers daily. My daughter in Victoria has yet to get vaccinated as she is breastfeeding. The consensus out there is that she'd probably be ok - maybe even better - but there's no data to support that. I'm all-in with her decision. I'm not some kind of - torch-carrying mob-arse. I am, however, pretty smart and lived a life of Science and data so, like I said - try me.
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