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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2021 2:43:45 GMT
This isn't looking too promising. It's being suggested that the best course of action would be to try to do a clean install of Windows 10 on my external hard drive first. If it's successful, and the computer is accepting it, then I can proceed to go ahead and back up my files and do the upgrade. But, I'm told that other people with the same computer have had issues trying to upgrade to Windows 10. I've been given a link to a page that details how to install Windows 10 onto an external hard drive, but I'm on my own as far as trying to get that done. When you say install windows 10 on the external HD, you mean on the jump drive, right? I don't think you can boot windows from an external hard drive like the one you are borrowing. The whole point is to partition your important files from the windows installation drive. ........but I think it's way beyond my level of understanding. I think I'm going to have to give up and just wait a few months till I can afford to buy a new computer.
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Post by Die Bullen on Oct 6, 2021 10:59:19 GMT
When you say install windows 10 on the external HD, you mean on the jump drive, right? I don't think you can boot windows from an external hard drive like the one you are borrowing. The whole point is to partition your important files from the windows installation drive. ........but I think it's way beyond my level of understanding. I think I'm going to have to give up and just wait a few months till I can afford to buy a new computer.
Well that or see if someone can help you in person and not charge. Either works out however. If you buy a new computer, it might even have windows 11
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Post by infant on Oct 6, 2021 14:30:28 GMT
I’m thinking of being proactive and upgrading to Win11 while it’s still a free upgrade. I lost out upgrading my win7 to Win10 a few years back.
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Post by Die Bullen on Oct 6, 2021 18:34:16 GMT
I’m thinking of being proactive and upgrading to Win11 while it’s still a free upgrade. I lost out upgrading my win7 to Win10 a few years back. I've been thinking the same thing. I am hearing good things about win 11
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Post by infant on Oct 6, 2021 19:46:12 GMT
I’m thinking of being proactive and upgrading to Win11 while it’s still a free upgrade. I lost out upgrading my win7 to Win10 a few years back. I've been thinking the same thing. I am hearing good things about win 11 Hey, I haven’t even learned Win10! I just got my computer in the spring and haven’t used it much since I normally use my tablet. so it would be like skipping from Win7 to Win11 without even trying win8 and just spending a few hours on win10. So, how different can it be??
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Post by Die Bullen on Oct 6, 2021 20:00:47 GMT
I've been thinking the same thing. I am hearing good things about win 11 Hey, I haven’t even learned Win10! I just got my computer in the spring and haven’t used it much since I normally use my tablet. so it would be like skipping from Win7 to Win11 without even trying win8 and just spending a few hours on win10. So, how different can it be?? I might just find out tonight or tomorrow! I'm not against buying a full version of windows 11 at some point, but you might as well take the upgrades while you can. Years back I bought a full version of Windows 10- cost me $100 or so but I have used that full versions dozens of times.
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Post by infant on Oct 6, 2021 21:03:47 GMT
Hey, I haven’t even learned Win10! I just got my computer in the spring and haven’t used it much since I normally use my tablet. so it would be like skipping from Win7 to Win11 without even trying win8 and just spending a few hours on win10. So, how different can it be?? I might just find out tonight or tomorrow! I'm not against buying a full version of windows 11 at some point, but you might as well take the upgrades while you can. Years back I bought a full version of Windows 10- cost me $100 or so but I have used that full versions dozens of times. I thought the license was only good for one computer?
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Post by Die Bullen on Oct 6, 2021 21:27:57 GMT
I might just find out tonight or tomorrow! I'm not against buying a full version of windows 11 at some point, but you might as well take the upgrades while you can. Years back I bought a full version of Windows 10- cost me $100 or so but I have used that full versions dozens of times. I thought the license was only good for one computer? Mine didn't have a license code so I just kept using it. It was a legit version too. That said however now that version is unusable because it doesn't recognize new hardware and drivers. When I reformatted my daughters laptop, windows couldn't recognize the network card so I was in a vicious not being able to get to the internet to update the drivers. Eventually I downloaded a new version of windows as a backup OS for one of my other computers so the drivers would be up to date
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2021 21:46:49 GMT
If you're interested in Windows 11, there's a forum devoted to it. I haven't gone through it yet, but if it's anything like the Windows 10 forum, there'll be information that'll tell you more about what to expect and comments from users stating the pros and cons.
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Post by Die Bullen on Oct 7, 2021 0:34:53 GMT
If you're interested in Windows 11, there's a forum devoted to it. I haven't gone through it yet, but if it's anything like the Windows 10 forum, there'll be information that'll tell you more about what to expect and comments from users stating the pros and cons.
Thank you. I was going to just take the plunge and install it tomorrow on one of my PC's!
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Post by Die Bullen on Oct 7, 2021 11:08:51 GMT
Update: I just started the Windows 11 download/install process on my Surface, which is what I use for Zoom calls. Luckily I have an old tablet as a backup. Let's see how this thing really is!
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Post by laristotle on Oct 7, 2021 12:49:03 GMT
Update: I just started the Windows 11 download/install process on my Surface, which is what I use for Zoom calls. Luckily I have an old tablet as a backup. Let's see how this thing really is! Looking forward to finding out how this works out for you before I do the same. Really curious as to how it may affect any of your programs? When I went from Vista > W7 > W10, some of my programs weren't compatible and stopped working.
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Post by Die Bullen on Oct 7, 2021 13:15:19 GMT
Here's the update.
Downloaded and installed this on a Surface 7 pro (11th Gen i7). Went smoothly so I updated it on my desktop, which is a 10th gen i7. Download and install took 30 minutes each with no input of configurations necessary. All existing files and apps are intact and seem to work as before. Slightly different feel in the Windows taskbar- I still need tp play around with the OS to check for new features but for basic functions the install has been seamless. The only thing I notice on the downside is starting windows takes a lot longer. With windows 10 running on an SSD, startup/login was almost instantaneous on my desktop- maybe 5-10 seconds. W11 takes closer to 30-45 seconds. I'm not sure this matters much to me as long as overall performance doesn't suffer.
So long story short- initial impression of the OS is good and installation by direct download was very easy.
Next step is to try this on an older laptop- i7 gen 8 and an old i3
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Post by laristotle on Oct 7, 2021 16:17:43 GMT
I downloaded/ran the 'PC health check'. It seems that my old i5 processor doesn't support W11. At least I can use this till 2025, when W10 support expires. I'll look for a used W11 desktop then.
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Post by Die Bullen on Oct 7, 2021 16:35:26 GMT
I downloaded/ran the 'PC health check'. It seems that my old i5 processor doesn't support W11. At least I can use this till 2025, when W10 support expires. I'll look for a used W11 desktop then. I have a LOT of older machines that probably won't support W11 either. I only did 2 relatively new machines- I will start looking at the older ones later.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2021 17:51:56 GMT
I don't have any particular interest in Windows 11. But, I do have some feelings about what I'm hearing....When people say that their older machines won't accept the new operating system, I suspect this is part of the manufacturer's strategy.....It's the same game that builders of electronics have been playing for years - Build a product that's designed to last only so long, and then change the rules so consumers are obligated to buy a new product. - Make a phone that slows down over time so you feel a need to replace it....-Build a printer that will only print so many pages before it develops an issue that makes it uneconomical to repair so you need to buy a new one...-Build a computer where heat-sensitive components are placed in positions where they're destined to fail so you need to buy a new computer....And on and on it goes. We're being manipulated by buying products designed to have a limited lifespan so we need to keep replacing them. I doubt like hell that Windows 11 needs to have complexity that surpasses what current technology can handle, but it serves the purpose of the manufacturers to offer it in a format that obligates us to spend more more money. Stuff like this just pisses me off because it all comes down to greed, and trying to wring every last nickel out of us, when there's really no need for it. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that older operating systems like XP and Windows 7 are only being unsupported and replacement being necessitated because Microsoft can make more money requiring us to buy new operating systems....It's not that there couldn't be a way to solve the security issues they claim the old systems have...It's just that they can make more money by not dealing with the problems and claiming that we need new equipment.
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Post by Die Bullen on Oct 7, 2021 19:44:18 GMT
I don't have any particular interest in Windows 11. But, I do have some feelings about what I'm hearing....When people say that their older machines won't accept the new operating system, I suspect this is part of the manufacturer's strategy.....It's the same game that builders of electronics have been playing for years - Build a product that's designed to last only so long, and then change the rules so consumers are obligated to buy a new product. - Make a phone that slows down over time so you feel a need to replace it....-Build a printer that will only print so many pages before it develops an issue that makes it uneconomical to repair so you need to buy a new one...-Build a computer where heat-sensitive components are placed in positions where they're destined to fail so you need to buy a new computer....And on and on it goes. We're being manipulated by buying products designed to have a limited lifespan so we need to keep replacing them. I doubt like hell that Windows 11 needs to have complexity that surpasses what current technology can handle, but it serves the purpose of the manufacturers to offer it in a format that obligates us to spend more more money. Stuff like this just pisses me off because it all comes down to greed, and trying to wring every last nickel out of us, when there's really no need for it. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that older operating systems like XP and Windows 7 are only being unsupported and replacement being necessitated because Microsoft can make more money requiring us to buy new operating systems....It's not that there couldn't be a way to solve the security issues they claim the old systems have...It's just that they can make more money by not dealing with the problems and claiming that we need new equipment. Of course I have no interest in converting you to Windows 11- although it was so easy to do that I wonder if you couldn't do the same with Windows 10. I just clicked a link and it did it all for me with no intervention, which was a heck of a lot easier than when I wiped the hard drive and installed Windows 10 from media, which can take hours. As you say, clearly there is motivation for companies to make people to constantly upgrade their systems, OS and programs. But let's bear in mind that computers and programs/ operating systems are products, not public services. They are designed to make. Manufacturers will never provide perpetual support for archaic OS builds (or anything else). Once a manufacturer stops supporting those products, it means that they stop patching security gaps and making updates so eventually those old systems will continue to degrade until software components simply break because they simply aren't compatible with anything anymore. This just happened with the museum's computer- it was 10 years old and simply couldn't function. The problem is that the computer field advances so quickly. We're used to cars, snowblowers whatever to give us a good 10-15 years with repairs. Computer technology advances exponentially faster. 40 years ago our Timex Sinclairs had a whopping 8 or 16 KB or memory and it seemed like a lot. 20 years ago we got computers with 512 MB of RAM and we joked that with this much memory we'd be able to power NORAD. Nowadays my phone has 8GB of RAM!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2021 22:26:10 GMT
I've certainly spent a lot of hours trying to figure this out. Some on this forum said in an earlier post that converting to Windows 10 should be easy....Just find the link, start the process and follow the prompts. Makes it sound so easy. However, my computer guru on the W10 forum said my computer has a history of upgrade issues going to Windows 10......His recent PM to me said
"The primary question here is whether your old PC can actually run Win 10 successfully. I provided evidence which suggested it may not. I suggested putting in a spare (blank) disk and simply clean installing Win 10 as a way to see if it would. Why? Because upgrades can be very problematic. I.e. If you can't succeed with a clean install there's no point trying to upgrade.... Removing the existing disk and putting in any working spare HDD means you keep your Win 7 disk untouched. If the clean install succeeds, then put back the Win 7 one, create a disk image, then attempt the upgrade."
He also provided links to other threads in the forum where people with the exact model I have (HP Compaq 8200 Elite) had a variety of issues in upgrading that computer from W7 to W10, and he posted this link....
Then, another poster in my upgrade thread said something very contradictory -
"Ken, have you got the small form factor 8200 pc ? Phil does some stuff here It runs win10 fine"
So, as you can see (assuming you actually clicked on those links), there's a wealth of contradictory information out there on this particular upgrade. And one thing I found particularly chilling -
"Bear in mind many upgrades go smoothly: if not, diagnosing problems can be technically involved and time consuming. In the worst case you may end up with an unbootable PC, although this is rather unlikely. So be prepared - create a disk image as above. Endlessly recommended as a routine and regular practice by members here."
So, there's at least a chance that I might end up with a doorstop instead of a computer. I'm completely buffaloed by the polarized opinions I'm getting, but I've been left with a lot of apprehension about the upgrade. What's particularly troubling is that once I start the process, I don't even have a working computer to go online and ask for an expert's help.
I haven't a clue what to do.
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Post by Die Bullen on Oct 7, 2021 23:21:32 GMT
I've certainly spent a lot of hours trying to figure this out. Some on this forum said in an earlier post that converting to Windows 10 should be easy....Just find the link, start the process and follow the prompts. Makes it sound so easy. However, my computer guru on the W10 forum said my computer has a history of upgrade issues going to Windows 10......His recent PM to me said
"The primary question here is whether your old PC can actually run Win 10 successfully. I provided evidence which suggested it may not. I suggested putting in a spare (blank) disk and simply clean installing Win 10 as a way to see if it would. Why? Because upgrades can be very problematic. I.e. If you can't succeed with a clean install there's no point trying to upgrade.... Removing the existing disk and putting in any working spare HDD means you keep your Win 7 disk untouched. If the clean install succeeds, then put back the Win 7 one, create a disk image, then attempt the upgrade." He also provided links to other threads in the forum where people with the exact model I have (HP Compaq 8200 Elite) had a variety of issues in upgrading that computer from W7 to W10, and he posted this link.... Then, another poster in my upgrade thread said something very contradictory -
"Ken, have you got the small form factor 8200 pc ? Phil does some stuff here It runs win10 fine"
So, as you can see (assuming you actually clicked on those links), there's a wealth of contradictory information out there on this particular upgrade. And one thing I found particularly chilling - "Bear in mind many upgrades go smoothly: if not, diagnosing problems can be technically involved and time consuming. In the worst case you may end up with an unbootable PC, although this is rather unlikely. So be prepared - create a disk image as above. Endlessly recommended as a routine and regular practice by members here." So, there's at least a chance that I might end up with a doorstop instead of a computer. I'm completely buffaloed by the polarized opinions I'm getting, but I've been left with a lot of apprehension about the upgrade. What's particularly troubling is that once I start the process, I don't even have a working computer to go online and ask for an expert's help. I haven't a clue what to do.
Well here is what I would do. 1- backup those files on the external hard drive. No matter what you do, making sure you have backed up files is important, even if you never upgrade anything! 2- Continue to see if someone you know has a serviceable pc that can be used, whether windows 10, windows 7 or 8 (yuk!). 3- whichever is the Better PC or laptop, either yours or the one donated to you, upgrade that one to windows 10. In the unlikely event of a catastrophic failure, at least you aren't completely dead in the water and you can use the other one in a pinch. I know you are nervous about this and the contradictory information isn't helping that. These guys are trying to help, but they are just making you more nervous. If your pc is really only 3 or so years old, there is little chance that it can't support windows 10. I have installed windows 10 on 8 year old i3 and i7 machines and they were just fine. Before windows installs commence the installer program checks compatibility and if it isn't compatible it will stop the install. 95% chance or higher that this install would be perfect or of the gate. However I continue to advise a backup computer just in case- even if you only borrow it.
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Post by Die Bullen on Oct 7, 2021 23:39:20 GMT
Can you pm me the system configuration file? You should be able to find it in the windows search function. I want to see just how old this pc is and what the specs are. The link you posted is from 2016 so maybe this pc isn't so new after all if that is the exact make and model?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2021 0:01:16 GMT
Hi Lowell, You have mail.
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Post by johnreardon on Oct 8, 2021 11:35:20 GMT
I don't have any particular interest in Windows 11. But, I do have some feelings about what I'm hearing....When people say that their older machines won't accept the new operating system, I suspect this is part of the manufacturer's strategy.....It's the same game that builders of electronics have been playing for years - Build a product that's designed to last only so long, and then change the rules so consumers are obligated to buy a new product. - Make a phone that slows down over time so you feel a need to replace it....-Build a printer that will only print so many pages before it develops an issue that makes it uneconomical to repair so you need to buy a new one...-Build a computer where heat-sensitive components are placed in positions where they're destined to fail so you need to buy a new computer....And on and on it goes. We're being manipulated by buying products designed to have a limited lifespan so we need to keep replacing them. I doubt like hell that Windows 11 needs to have complexity that surpasses what current technology can handle, but it serves the purpose of the manufacturers to offer it in a format that obligates us to spend more more money. Stuff like this just pisses me off because it all comes down to greed, and trying to wring every last nickel out of us, when there's really no need for it. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that older operating systems like XP and Windows 7 are only being unsupported and replacement being necessitated because Microsoft can make more money requiring us to buy new operating systems....It's not that there couldn't be a way to solve the security issues they claim the old systems have...It's just that they can make more money by not dealing with the problems and claiming that we need new equipment. It's not that. Technology, especially in the world of electronics moves on so rapidly that software written for earlier versions often has to be rewritten to work on the new hardware, with the result that eventually the earlier versions will not work and be de-supported.
Back in my Programming days, I used the likes of COBOL and FORTRAN in the early 80s and the hardware (computers) were cupboard size bits of kit with storage on removable hard disks. By the late 80s and into 90s, we were using desktop size servers with code being written in SQL and eventually Java. That software would not work on the earlier hardware and even the newer hardware often became quickly redundant as the software advanced.
As I mentioned earlier, you wouldn't expect parts from a Model T Ford to work on new Fords. In IT the redundancy is just quicker. It's nothing to do with monetary greed, it's all to do with keeping up with technology and your competitors. This obviously has a financial interest, but that interest is more to do with staying 'alive' in that area. You don't move with the technology, you lose market share and eventually go bust
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Post by Die Bullen on Oct 8, 2021 11:44:41 GMT
I don't have any particular interest in Windows 11. But, I do have some feelings about what I'm hearing....When people say that their older machines won't accept the new operating system, I suspect this is part of the manufacturer's strategy.....It's the same game that builders of electronics have been playing for years - Build a product that's designed to last only so long, and then change the rules so consumers are obligated to buy a new product. - Make a phone that slows down over time so you feel a need to replace it....-Build a printer that will only print so many pages before it develops an issue that makes it uneconomical to repair so you need to buy a new one...-Build a computer where heat-sensitive components are placed in positions where they're destined to fail so you need to buy a new computer....And on and on it goes. We're being manipulated by buying products designed to have a limited lifespan so we need to keep replacing them. I doubt like hell that Windows 11 needs to have complexity that surpasses what current technology can handle, but it serves the purpose of the manufacturers to offer it in a format that obligates us to spend more more money. Stuff like this just pisses me off because it all comes down to greed, and trying to wring every last nickel out of us, when there's really no need for it. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that older operating systems like XP and Windows 7 are only being unsupported and replacement being necessitated because Microsoft can make more money requiring us to buy new operating systems....It's not that there couldn't be a way to solve the security issues they claim the old systems have...It's just that they can make more money by not dealing with the problems and claiming that we need new equipment. It's not that. Technology, especially in the world of electronics moves on so rapidly that software written for earlier versions often has to be rewritten to work on the new hardware, with the result that eventually the earlier versions will not work and be de-supported.
Back in my Programming days, I used the likes of COBOL and FORTRAN in the early 80s and the hardware (computers) were cupboard size bits of kit with storage on removable hard disks. By the late 80s and into 90s, we were using desktop size servers with code being written in SQL and eventually Java. That software would not work on the earlier hardware and even the newer hardware often became quickly redundant as the software advanced.
As I mentioned earlier, you wouldn't expect parts from a Model T Ford to work on new Fords. In IT the redundancy is just quicker. It's nothing to do with monetary greed, it's all to do with keeping up with technology and your competitors. This obviously has a financial interest, but that interest is more to do with staying 'alive' in that area. You don't move with the technology, you lose market share and eventually go bust
Just look at Kodak. Although not a computer company, they completely misjudged how fast digital photography would take over in the late 1990's and it only took a few years for a massive company to be driven into bankruptcy.
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Post by johnreardon on Oct 8, 2021 14:54:43 GMT
It's not that. Technology, especially in the world of electronics moves on so rapidly that software written for earlier versions often has to be rewritten to work on the new hardware, with the result that eventually the earlier versions will not work and be de-supported.
Back in my Programming days, I used the likes of COBOL and FORTRAN in the early 80s and the hardware (computers) were cupboard size bits of kit with storage on removable hard disks. By the late 80s and into 90s, we were using desktop size servers with code being written in SQL and eventually Java. That software would not work on the earlier hardware and even the newer hardware often became quickly redundant as the software advanced.
As I mentioned earlier, you wouldn't expect parts from a Model T Ford to work on new Fords. In IT the redundancy is just quicker. It's nothing to do with monetary greed, it's all to do with keeping up with technology and your competitors. This obviously has a financial interest, but that interest is more to do with staying 'alive' in that area. You don't move with the technology, you lose market share and eventually go bust
Just look at Kodak. Although not a computer company, they completely misjudged how fast digital photography would take over in the late 1990's and it only took a few years for a massive company to be driven into bankruptcy. Yep, even Apple & Microsoft may not be safe. Alphabet, the head Company of Google is not far behind along with the likes of Facebook. Innovate or die.
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Post by Die Bullen on Oct 8, 2021 19:56:21 GMT
Quick Windows 11 update. I'm finding that W11 is now starting faster than Windows 10. I guess the slow starts the first couple of times were due to configs going on in the background.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2021 23:22:55 GMT
Quick Windows 11 update. I'm finding that W11 is now starting faster than Windows 10. I guess the slow starts the first couple of times were due to configs going on in the background. A bit of a parallel to a question I asked on the Tech Guys forum earlier. I noticed there were 62 programs running in the background of my computer, and thought that might be abnormally high - I was hoping maybe it had some bearing on the problems I was having. The experts tell me that that's normal, so no issue. About all they could say is that they noticed some portions of Avast, which is a security system I stopped using a while back. Apparently Avast is an absolute pain to flush out of your computer, which might be worth consideration if you're thinking about using it. Anyway, they gave me a link to a power-flusher that forces it out completely.
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Post by laristotle on Oct 8, 2021 23:43:48 GMT
Quick Windows 11 update. I'm finding that W11 is now starting faster than Windows 10. I guess the slow starts the first couple of times were due to configs going on in the background. A bit of a parallel to a question I asked on the Tech Guys forum earlier. I noticed there were 62 programs running in the background of my computer, and thought that might be abnormally high - I was hoping maybe it had some bearing on the problems I was having. The experts tell me that that's normal, so no issue. About all they could say is that they noticed some portions of Avast, which is a security system I stopped using a while back. Apparently Avast is an absolute pain to flush out of your computer, which might be worth consideration if you're thinking about using it. Anyway, they gave me a link to a power-flusher that forces it out completely. Flushing that out will help, along with stopping other programs that may be causing problems for you.
Did you provide a screen capture of your running programs to the 'experts' to look through? Can you provide that here? Not saying that they're wrong or that they missed something, but more eyes may be helpful in this situation?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2021 0:05:40 GMT
A bit of a parallel to a question I asked on the Tech Guys forum earlier. I noticed there were 62 programs running in the background of my computer, and thought that might be abnormally high - I was hoping maybe it had some bearing on the problems I was having. The experts tell me that that's normal, so no issue. About all they could say is that they noticed some portions of Avast, which is a security system I stopped using a while back. Apparently Avast is an absolute pain to flush out of your computer, which might be worth consideration if you're thinking about using it. Anyway, they gave me a link to a power-flusher that forces it out completely. Flushing that out will help, along with stopping other programs that may be causing problems for you.
Did you provide a screen capture of your running programs to the 'experts' to look through? Can you provide that here? Not saying that they're wrong or that they missed something, but more eyes may be helpful in this situation?
I took a screen capture to show them. It didn't show it all because the list was too long, so maybe there's something about the process that I don't understand that lets you get the balance that's below the screen view. I thought maybe I could do a cut-and-paste, but that doesn't seem to be an option. Here's the shot I showed them....
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Post by Die Bullen on Oct 9, 2021 0:37:51 GMT
Flushing that out will help, along with stopping other programs that may be causing problems for you.
Did you provide a screen capture of your running programs to the 'experts' to look through? Can you provide that here? Not saying that they're wrong or that they missed something, but more eyes may be helpful in this situation?
I took a screen capture to show them. It didn't show it all because the list was too long, so maybe there's something about the process that I don't understand that lets you get the balance that's below the screen view. I thought maybe I could do a cut-and-paste, but that doesn't seem to be an option. Here's the shot I showed them....
Seems like a lot of stuff running on that machine. Do you find it too be very slow?
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Post by laristotle on Oct 9, 2021 0:41:23 GMT
I took a screen capture to show them. It didn't show it all because the list was too long, so maybe there's something about the process that I don't understand that lets you get the balance that's below the screen view. If you can do another screen shot of the 'applications' (first) tab? that may help. As for getting the rest of the list in a screen shot, after the first shot, scroll down the list and take another and so on until you capture the full list. It may be two or three pics totals worth.
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