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Post by johnreardon on Nov 22, 2020 11:16:19 GMT
How many of you use something as an aid to remember lyrics as you get more 'mature'?
Back in the 60s, none of us used anything. The singer always remembered lyrics for well over a 100 songs. These days, you see young bands that have those gigantic music stands in front of not just the singer, but often everyone in the band. I have even see bass guitarists that don't sing, have a music stand in front of them. To me it's ridiculous. You might as well erect a wall between you and the audience. You can probably guess I am anti music stands
Now at our ages, I don't blame singers having something to help them remember lyrics, especially if you only do a handful of gigs a year, like we do. However, why the music stand in front of the most visually important person in the band?
We use an iPad mini that clamps to a mic stand that the singer has about his waist height. Most in the audience haven't a clue it's even there. It's more of a crutch for the singer who glances at the lyrics when one of us is playing a solo. He's quite good at making lyrics up anyway, so if he forgets, that's what he does.
Software I use is Set List Maker from Arlomedia. As well as putting the lyrics, it also allows me to produce set lists for the rest of the band, which they usually put on the floor. Again, being mature, I try to use the largest font possible to enable a set per side of A4.
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Post by Sgt Rock on Nov 22, 2020 17:19:14 GMT
like you, John, I, too, have noticed the increase of "aids" for performing in front of audiences. however, it's not only music stands. you can include loopers, and music to play along with, such as horns or piano pieces. my wife and I went to see a friend play one night. he's a very good singer and talented guitar player. we got there and there was his I-pad. when I was performing in front of someone, it was unheard of using a crutch. you knew the songs by heart. I used to know so many songs. all I had to hear was one note and I was ready. as you mentioned, nowadays, not so much. although, once my daughter and I sang one of my songs that I had just written. I couldn't remember all of the words and I also had the chords for my daughter to use. she was playing an autoharp and got a lot of praise.
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Post by infant on Nov 23, 2020 0:36:08 GMT
Well gents, I’m one of those music stand users. Being one of the lead singers, I can’t remember all the lyrics and chords. Songs like Born to Run aren’t the easiest to remember when we are just part time players. Sure it’s a crutch but I try to keep mine fairly low so that it’s not a visual impediment. I’m hoping to start using my iPad clipped to my mic stand. I’m getting older and the memory ain’t the same as it used to be....I can’t even remember what I had for breakfast today!
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Post by Bill h on Nov 23, 2020 3:53:25 GMT
I was in a band many years ago where the singer used a music stand, didn’t really like it at the time but I was a lot younger. I was in a rock band playing covers, I just thought it was a bad look. Even back then however I used to keep notes on my copy of the set list, chord changes mostly but it came in real handy when I was struck by an on-stage brain fart.
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Post by johnreardon on Nov 23, 2020 8:43:58 GMT
like you, John, I, too, have noticed the increase of "aids" for performing in front of audiences. however, it's not only music stands. you can include loopers, and music to play along with, such as horns or piano pieces. my wife and I went to see a friend play one night. he's a very good singer and talented guitar player. we got there and there was his I-pad. when I was performing in front of someone, it was unheard of using a crutch. you knew the songs by heart. I used to know so many songs. all I had to hear was one note and I was ready. as you mentioned, nowadays, not so much. although, once my daughter and I sang one of my songs that I had just written. I couldn't remember all of the words and I also had the chords for my daughter to use. she was playing an autoharp and got a lot of praise. Yes, I forget lyrics to stuff I have written. I don't sing at gigs, but I do demos for our singer and occasionally stand in at the few rehearsal sessions we have.
This is one of mine at rehearsal, unusually playing my Strat, hence the solo sounding a bit thin. Had to wear my specs as well to see the lyrics
I over dubbed the solo on this and double tracked the audio, adding a bit of reverb. Incidentally the video in this one is of a trip me, the missus and her family made to a zoo around 1970. The little boy shown is now 51 with a daughter roughly the same age as he was. Woman in pink dress is my missus, in bed at the moment watching TV. The very last frame is me on the right with my old drummer. He's still playing and in fact depped for us at our last gigs in Feb 2020. I seem to have had hair back then
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Post by Sgt Rock on Nov 24, 2020 0:53:52 GMT
wow, John ! that second video is great. that song should be on the radio and making you a hit song.
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Post by johnreardon on Nov 24, 2020 10:58:57 GMT
wow, John ! that second video is great. that song should be on the radio and making you a hit song. Cheers Brent. If we ever get a chance to record again, it will be on the album, with probably our singer on vocals. Although he thinks I should sing it as he thinks I sound like Neil Young. I'm not sure myself and anyway sounding like Neil Young may not be a compliment.
This was my first demo of the song, so you can see how it's changed. It's this version he made the Neil Young Comparison. I do prefer the sax version
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Post by infant on Nov 24, 2020 17:12:52 GMT
Ha ha....your singer is right, the more I listened the more you sound like Neil Young! Nothing wrong with sounding like Neil, he’s a rich man. Years ago, when artists around the world were doing songs to raise money for the people of Ethiopia, Canadian artists did a song called Tears are not Enough. The producer was David Foster. At one point during the recording of Neil’s part, Foster stops him and says “uh, Neil....your a little flat” whereupon Young replies “hey, it’s my style man!”. There you go, don’t mess with perfection! Foster just let it go after that.
That’s a great song John. I enjoyed it very much!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2020 2:05:26 GMT
Who is the bass player....He appears to have Bill Wyman disease with that upright bass stance, lol. I can't imagine ever using an iPod clipped to my mike stand....I'd never be able to see the tiny print, so I have to commit lyrics to memory. Plus, my mike stand's already spoken for...I use a Peterson StroboFlip tuner which is designed to clip up high on the mike stand, just below microphone height. I love having my tuner up close where I can see it.
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Post by johnreardon on Dec 6, 2020 12:20:37 GMT
Who is the bass player....He appears to have Bill Wyman disease with that upright bass stance, lol. I can't imagine ever using an iPod clipped to my mike stand....I'd never be able to see the tiny print, so I have to commit lyrics to memory. Plus, my mike stand's already spoken for...I use a Peterson StroboFlip tuner which is designed to clip up high on the mike stand, just below microphone height. I love having my tuner up close where I can see it.
He was our first bass player. He was a giant of a man who played like that before we knew of the Stones. He left the band in 1964 to get married and start his own business. Sadly he fell down the stairs in his house, about 10 years ago and broke his neck. Lovely man.
As I'm not a singer, I find it difficult to remember lyrics, even for songs I wrote
The iPad is more of a crutch for our singer. He uses it more to check what's next in the set. It's only a mini iPad, so like you I would find it difficult to read. You can make lyric bigger or smaller
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Post by Die Bullen on Dec 15, 2020 18:31:22 GMT
We always use "band-branded" music stands and sheet music. We don't actually have a singer but the issue is essentially the same for me, many of the songs we play have so many chord changes that I simply have to read everything. It also doesn't help that we probably have 700+ songs in our active set lists- just no time to memorize everything.
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Post by zontar on Dec 17, 2020 8:32:04 GMT
At church as we rotate through different people playing (Not so much this year though. I've barely played at church this year) & we have a large repertoire to choose from & new songs coming in as well, that we do use stands. Some songs I don't use it much, as they are very famillar, others not so much--and sometimes there's a different person leading and they do the song differently.
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Post by zontar on Dec 17, 2020 8:43:31 GMT
I am reminded of something Ian Gillan (Deep Purple) said about when he was briefly in Black Sabbath. For live performances he needed help with the Sabbath tunes, and had lyrics laminated & in a binder/book that he could read place on the stage & read while looking down--and flip the pages with his foot.
However when he prepared that he was unaware of the amount of dry ice that Sabbath used--so he had the lyrics ready to go--but couldn't see them.
I have also heard of singers who use TelePrompters that are disguised as edge monitors.
So if there's no dry ice & the singer looks down a lot--maybe that's why.
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Post by johnreardon on Dec 17, 2020 8:48:35 GMT
I am reminded of something Ian Gillan (Deep Purple) said about when he was briefly in Black Sabbath. For live performances he needed help with the Sabbath tunes, and had lyrics laminated & in a binder/book that he could read place on the stage & read while looking down--and flip the pages with his foot. However when he prepared that he was unaware of the amount of dry ice that Sabbath used--so he had the lyrics ready to go--but couldn't see them. I have also heard of singers who use TelePrompters that are disguised as edge monitors. So if there's no dry ice & the singer looks down a lot--maybe that's why. I watched a concert of the Stones recently. Forget which one, but one camera shot showed Jagger had a large monitor on the floor that appeared to have words moving like a teleprompter.
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Post by zontar on Dec 17, 2020 8:55:22 GMT
I am reminded of something Ian Gillan (Deep Purple) said about when he was briefly in Black Sabbath. For live performances he needed help with the Sabbath tunes, and had lyrics laminated & in a binder/book that he could read place on the stage & read while looking down--and flip the pages with his foot. However when he prepared that he was unaware of the amount of dry ice that Sabbath used--so he had the lyrics ready to go--but couldn't see them. I have also heard of singers who use TelePrompters that are disguised as edge monitors. So if there's no dry ice & the singer looks down a lot--maybe that's why. I watched a concert of the Stones recently. Forget which one, but one camera shot showed Jagger had a large monitor on the floor that appeared to have words moving like a teleprompter. Quite possible. Piano & some other keyboard players have an advantage in one sense with a built in music stand. I have seen many use that --including Dr John.
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Post by Die Bullen on Jan 4, 2021 1:36:40 GMT
I remember years ago seeing Frank Sinatra at Radio City Music Hall. He forgot the words several times, made a joke about it several times. I wonder if he used teleprompters?
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Post by zontar on Jan 4, 2021 8:28:12 GMT
I like when you see a singer forget lyrics live, but the crowd sings it for them.
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Post by Die Bullen on Jan 4, 2021 13:45:50 GMT
Refers to the audience participation thread too!
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Post by Bill h on Jan 5, 2021 3:53:34 GMT
I remember years ago seeing Frank Sinatra at Radio City Music Hall. He forgot the words several times, made a joke about it several times. I wonder if he used teleprompters? Don’t know if Sinatra did but I can tell you with absolute certainty that Jagger does. I don’t know if it was the same concert that John was talking about but I saw him using one, to be honest, I can’t believe they let that footage out.
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Post by zontar on Jan 5, 2021 5:13:36 GMT
Refers to the audience participation thread too! But sometimes it’s not intended
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Post by Die Bullen on Jan 5, 2021 13:10:49 GMT
Refers to the audience participation thread too! But sometimes it’s not intended hey if your crowd is that enthusiastic, let 'em sing!
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Post by Die Bullen on Jan 5, 2021 13:13:55 GMT
I remember years ago seeing Frank Sinatra at Radio City Music Hall. He forgot the words several times, made a joke about it several times. I wonder if he used teleprompters? Don’t know if Sinatra did but I can tell you with absolute certainty that Jagger does. I don’t know if it was the same concert that John was talking about but I saw him using one, to be honest, I can’t believe they let that footage out. You would think that after singing the same songs for the past 50+ years, these guys would have it down by now!
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Post by johnreardon on Jan 5, 2021 14:37:05 GMT
Don’t know if Sinatra did but I can tell you with absolute certainty that Jagger does. I don’t know if it was the same concert that John was talking about but I saw him using one, to be honest, I can’t believe they let that footage out. You would think that after singing the same songs for the past 50+ years, these guys would have it down by now! I can't remember words of stuff I have written. Part of that though is because I rarely sing stuff at gigs. Even doing demos, I have to have they lyrics on the desk in front of me. I used to print them on two sided paper, but now with my new Rhode mic, I've found it'll pick up paper rustling, so lay it down careful in front of me
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Post by Die Bullen on Jan 5, 2021 14:48:45 GMT
You would think that after singing the same songs for the past 50+ years, these guys would have it down by now! I can't remember words of stuff I have written. Part of that though is because I rarely sing stuff at gigs. Even doing demos, I have to have they lyrics on the desk in front of me. I used to print them on two sided paper, but now with my new Rhode mic, I've found it'll pick up paper rustling, so lay it down careful in front of me I'm sure if I was forced to sing I would need that paper in front of me too.
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Post by zontar on Jan 6, 2021 7:43:08 GMT
When recording stuff at home I tend to have the song structure noted in front of me--just to make sure--I usually don't need to look at it--but it's nice to have.
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Post by infant on May 14, 2021 12:51:26 GMT
Resurrecting an older thread but hey, if Johnny Cash can use a music stand on stage, so can I!
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Post by Die Bullen on May 14, 2021 13:10:57 GMT
Resurrecting an older thread but hey, if Johnny Cash can use a music stand on stage, so can I! View AttachmentPersonally I always thought it was stupid that some people have disdain for professionals playing on stage with music stands.
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Post by zontar on May 15, 2021 22:48:35 GMT
Resurrecting an older thread but hey, if Johnny Cash can use a music stand on stage, so can I! View AttachmentPersonally I always thought it was stupid that some people have disdain for professionals playing on stage with music stands. Well orchestras & big bands tend to have music in front of them. Doesn't mean the musicians never memorize anything (Although that is possible)--but they have a lot of stuff to learn and different stuff to play. And it also probably means they are top notch sight readers.
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Post by Die Bullen on May 16, 2021 0:39:32 GMT
Personally I always thought it was stupid that some people have disdain for professionals playing on stage with music stands. Well orchestras & big bands tend to have music in front of them. Doesn't mean the musicians never memorize anything (Although that is possible)--but they have a lot of stuff to learn and different stuff to play. And it also probably means they are top notch sight readers. Certainly big bands and orchestras always have music. It irritates me when people turn their nose up at stands for smaller groups however
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Post by infant on May 16, 2021 2:48:49 GMT
About 10 years ago, I saw The Who live here in Hamilton. At one point, a roadie placed a music stand in front of Pete Townsend and we couldn’t understand why because they weren’t playing any new material that night. It was weird but I figured if PT used one in front of 10,000 people, I could use one in front of a couple of hundred.
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