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Post by zontar on Feb 28, 2021 1:48:20 GMT
I did a list like this for Teles in a Tele thread, and thought I'd try to for other guitars as well. So this time Stratocasters as in some sense they were intended as Tele 2.0 (Although that terminology did not exist in the 50s)
I don't own a Strat, and never have--even a STrat copy. But I have played many over the years. And I do like them. I would be much more likely to play or own a Strat than a Tele (But don't hold that against me if you favour Teles)
So 5 best things in my experience about Stratocasters: 1- Their role in guitar history -they improved on things people didn't like about Teles, they strayed from the traditional look & introduced some features, and became the guitar many picture when they hear electric guitar (if not most-including non-musicians) they became the most copied electric guitar in history (if not most copied guitar period) 2-They are very comfortable to play & hold-with the belly cut in the back, the carve of rate picking arm, and a balance body. 3-The sound of the middle pickup, as well as the middle & neck pickups--I love those sounds--and usually if I am playing a Start though an amp, that's the setting I go for. 4-The ability to do volume swell without a volume pedal (Although if a volume pedal is available, I'll use that) 5-While not perfect, the vibrato (yes, vibrato) is miles ahead of anything that existed at the time, and much that has come along since.
5 worst things about Strats (From my experience) 1-the models with V necks. I do not like V necks--I have tried them--they just don't work for my hand & playing (Hard & medium V necks especially) 2-they can be noisy due to single coil hum-although the degree to which they are & how much it matters does vary-and there are ways to combat it 3-70s Starts can be heavy--in some cases I have played Strats heavier than a 70s Les Paul (Pre weight relief) 4-When strings break they can through of the overall sound & tuning (Of course many vibrato bar equipped guitars can also be affected by that) 5-While I don't hate it, the selector with isn't placed the best, and I would prefer an option that allows all pickup combinations to be chosen. (Which some models & mods have allowed)
I'd say the best things outweigh the worst things by a huge margin
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Post by Die Bullen on Feb 28, 2021 2:28:09 GMT
I did a list like this for Teles in a Tele thread, and thought I'd try to for other guitars as well. So this time Stratocasters as in some sense they were intended as Tele 2.0 (Although that terminology did not exist in the 50s) I don't own a Strat, and never have--even a STrat copy. But I have played many over the years. And I do like them. I would be much more likely to play or own a Strat than a Tele (But don't hold that against me if you favour Teles) So 5 best things in my experience about Stratocasters: 1- Their role in guitar history -they improved on things people didn't like about Teles, they strayed from the traditional look & introduced some features, and became the guitar many picture when they hear electric guitar (if not most-including non-musicians) they became the most copied electric guitar in history (if not most copied guitar period) 2-They are very comfortable to play & hold-with the belly cut in the back, the carve of rate picking arm, and a balance body. 3-The sound of the middle pickup, as well as the middle & neck pickups--I love those sounds--and usually if I am playing a Start though an amp, that's the setting I go for. 4-The ability to do volume swell without a volume pedal (Although if a volume pedal is available, I'll use that) 5-While not perfect, the vibrato (yes, vibrato) is miles ahead of anything that existed at the time, and much that has come along since. 5 worst things about Strats (From my experience) 1-the models with V necks. I do not like V necks--I have tried them--they just don't work for my hand & playing (Hard & medium V necks especially) 2-they can be noisy due to single coil hum-although the degree to which they are & how much it matters does vary-and there are ways to combat it 3-70s Starts can be heavy--in some cases I have played Strats heavier than a 70s Les Paul (Pre weight relief) 4-When strings break they can through of the overall sound & tuning (Of course many vibrato bar equipped guitars can also be affected by that) 5-While I don't hate it, the selector with isn't placed the best, and I would prefer an option that allows all pickup combinations to be chosen. (Which some models & mods have allowed) I'd say the best things outweigh the worst things by a huge margin I only have 1 strat but I must say I really like it. One thing I very much agree with on the cons above is the switch position. I have hit the switch many times by accident which has changed both the output and the sound unexpectedly on stage.
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Post by infant on Feb 28, 2021 3:51:54 GMT
My son has a hard tail Strat that I built years ago for myself but ended up giving to him.
The main things I love about it are: The belly cut and right arm bevel cut....they just make it so comfortable to play The “quack” from positions 2 and 4. Such a great funky sound. I have a RWRP pickup in the middle position so positions 2 and 4 are hum cancelling.
The only thing I don’t like is the location of the volume knob. I find myself inadvertently turning down the volume with my pinky as I find it too close to where I rest my hand
If I were to build another, I would remove one of the tone controls and move the volume over to that location. Then it would be perfect for me.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2021 4:18:21 GMT
I've owned a few Strats and along with a few things I've liked (ergonomic body styling, good control functions), I've always seen that vibrato system as the Achilles heel of an otherwise great guitar. I've only ever had one Strat where the vibrato system was actually usable without knocking the guitar out of tune, and ironically, it was a Korean-made Squier.
I've built almost as many Strats as any other style of guitar, but the one thing I've always opted for is a hardtail bridge. In a non-vibrato model, they probably come as close to an ideal off-the-rack guitar as I'd found. And, if I had to buy a production guitar at this point, I'd want an American Standard, old enough that it didn't have the ridiculous over-size frets, with a hardtail bridge.
I know there will be purists that maintain Leo got it right when he designed the Telecaster, and it is a really fine guitar. But, I look at the Stratocaster as a better, improved guitar. It might have been better if he'd left it at that, since most of his later creations, such as Jaguars and Jazzmasters have some built-in design flaws, such as the bridge. If I can see one design shortcoming in the Stratocaster, it would probably be the pickguard. I've seen pictures of a 1954 prototype that belonged to George Fullerton that had the pickguard separated into two pieces...a control section, and a pickup section. That's something that should have made to to the final design stage - Imagine how much easier it would be to work on a Strat that didn't need the entire pickguard lifted out every time to work on the electronics or spray a control or switch.
In my mind though, the Strat's still the pick of the litter.
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Post by infant on Feb 28, 2021 4:33:23 GMT
I played a Tele with the arm bevel and belly cut and to me, it was perfect with the exception that I would have liked a middle pickup.
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Post by zontar on Feb 28, 2021 7:22:07 GMT
My son has a hard tail Strat that I built years ago for myself but ended up giving to him. The main things I love about it are: The belly cut and right arm bevel cut....they just make it so comfortable to play The “quack” from positions 2 and 4. Such a great funky sound. I have a RWRP pickup in the middle position so positions 2 and 4 are hum cancelling. The only thing I don’t like is the location of the volume knob. I find myself inadvertently turning down the volume with my pinky as I find it too close to where I rest my hand If I were to build another, I would remove one of the tone controls and move the volume over to that location. Then it would be perfect for me. Interesting two of the things you like are basically on my list, and the thing you don't like is a thing I do. But cool
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Post by johnreardon on Feb 28, 2021 11:01:56 GMT
I only have one Strat now, but have had quite a few.
For playability & comfort, they are almost perfect. For sound (to me) the single coil ones are not. I used to have a HSS Strat and that sounded a lot better to my ears. Yes they do sound better if you use pedals, but I don't, hence a preference for LPs.
The best thing about a Strat is if you ask most people, including kids, to draw a guitar, it'll look like a Strat. Some legacy from Leo
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Post by Die Bullen on Feb 28, 2021 14:30:40 GMT
I've owned a few Strats and along with a few things I've liked (ergonomic body styling, good control functions), I've always seen that vibrato system as the Achilles heel of an otherwise great guitar. I've only ever had one Strat where the vibrato system was actually usable without knocking the guitar out of tune, and ironically, it was a Korean-made Squier. I've built almost as many Strats as any other style of guitar, but the one thing I've always opted for is a hardtail bridge. In a non-vibrato model, they probably come as close to an ideal off-the-rack guitar as I'd found. And, if I had to buy a production guitar at this point, I'd want an American Standard, old enough that it didn't have the ridiculous over-size frets, with a hardtail bridge. I know there will be purists that maintain Leo got it right when he designed the Telecaster, and it is a really fine guitar. But, I look at the Stratocaster as a better, improved guitar. It might have been better if he'd left it at that, since most of his later creations, such as Jaguars and Jazzmasters have some built-in design flaws, such as the bridge. If I can see one design shortcoming in the Stratocaster, it would probably be the pickguard. I've seen pictures of a 1954 prototype that belonged to George Fullerton that had the pickguard separated into two pieces...a control section, and a pickup section. That's something that should have made to to the final design stage - Imagine how much easier it would be to work on a Strat that didn't need the entire pickguard lifted out every time to work on the electronics or spray a control or switch. In my mind though, the Strat's still the pick of the litter. Funny you say that about tremolo systems. My strat has a tremolo bar that has never been put in. The little silver sticker is still on the bridge covering the hole. As far as Jazzmasters go, when I had mine custom built, they used as Mastery tremolo assembly instead of the stock fender one
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Post by zontar on Feb 28, 2021 20:15:11 GMT
I only have one Strat now, but have had quite a few. For playability & comfort, they are almost perfect. For sound (to me) the single coil ones are not. I used to have a HSS Strat and that sounded a lot better to my ears. Yes they do sound better if you use pedals, but I don't, hence a preference for LPs. The best thing about a Strat is if you ask most people, including kids, to draw a guitar, it'll look like a Strat. Some legacy from Leo When it was introduced some balked at the shape, but now it’s normal (And has been for decades)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2021 20:29:16 GMT
Funny that one of the dislikes pointed out was the v-profiled neck. I've only had one guitar with one (my 1985 MIJ Tele TL-62) which, I think, was a hard V. I bought the guitar used from a coworker, having looked at it but not played it, and really wasn't aware of it until I got it home. Initially, it felt a bit strange, but I found I got used to it and eventually found it comfortable. I've never encountered another guitar with a V neck profile.....It's not something I'd particularly search for in choosing a guitar, but it wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me.
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Post by zontar on Feb 28, 2021 20:40:43 GMT
Funny that one of the dislikes pointed out was the v-profiled neck. I've only had one guitar with one (my 1985 MIJ Tele TL-62) which, I think, was a hard V. I bought the guitar used from a coworker, having looked at it but not played it, and really wasn't aware of it until I got it home. Initially, it felt a bit strange, but I found I got used to it and eventually found it comfortable. I've never encountered another guitar with a V neck profile.....It's not something I'd particularly search for in choosing a guitar, but it wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me. I have encountered several V neck guitars If I pick up a guitar & it has a V neck, I put it back down But I know some people love them & I understand why But based on my hand size, shape, how I hold my hand (which changes depends on what I am playing) I don’t like V necks
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Post by Die Bullen on Feb 28, 2021 21:38:23 GMT
Funny that one of the dislikes pointed out was the v-profiled neck. I've only had one guitar with one (my 1985 MIJ Tele TL-62) which, I think, was a hard V. I bought the guitar used from a coworker, having looked at it but not played it, and really wasn't aware of it until I got it home. Initially, it felt a bit strange, but I found I got used to it and eventually found it comfortable. I've never encountered another guitar with a V neck profile.....It's not something I'd particularly search for in choosing a guitar, but it wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me. I thought that an odd dislike too as it I wouldn't generally associate v necks with a Strat at all, but obviously Zontar has had bad experiences there. I have only had one guitar with a soft v, my Jazzmaster, and I quite like it.
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Post by zontar on Feb 28, 2021 22:13:51 GMT
Funny that one of the dislikes pointed out was the v-profiled neck. I've only had one guitar with one (my 1985 MIJ Tele TL-62) which, I think, was a hard V. I bought the guitar used from a coworker, having looked at it but not played it, and really wasn't aware of it until I got it home. Initially, it felt a bit strange, but I found I got used to it and eventually found it comfortable. I've never encountered another guitar with a V neck profile.....It's not something I'd particularly search for in choosing a guitar, but it wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me. I thought that an odd dislike too as it I wouldn't generally associate v necks with a Strat at all, but obviously Zontar has had bad experiences there. I have only had one guitar with a soft v, my Jazzmaster, and I quite like it. There was a period in the 50s when Strats had V necks & various times since then, especially on reissues and some signature models-as well as other Strats here & there-such as the Eric Clapton model & most 50s re-issues Trust me, they are out there They may be in the minority but they would be ones I would not buy So I would need to check that out
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Post by Die Bullen on Feb 28, 2021 22:50:10 GMT
I thought that an odd dislike too as it I wouldn't generally associate v necks with a Strat at all, but obviously Zontar has had bad experiences there. I have only had one guitar with a soft v, my Jazzmaster, and I quite like it. There was a period in the 50s when Strats had V necks & various times since then, especially on reissues and some signature models-as well as other Strats here & there-such as the Eric Clapton model & most 50s re-issues Trust me, they are out there They may be in the minority but they would be ones I would not buy So I would need to check that out Sure they are out there, but I think that's a general Fender thing more than a Strat thing. I guess many could say the same about not liking Teles with a the U or boat neck. Did they ever use those on a Strat? I don't know...
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Post by zontar on Feb 28, 2021 23:35:42 GMT
There was a period in the 50s when Strats had V necks & various times since then, especially on reissues and some signature models-as well as other Strats here & there-such as the Eric Clapton model & most 50s re-issues Trust me, they are out there They may be in the minority but they would be ones I would not buy So I would need to check that out Sure they are out there, but I think that's a general Fender thing more than a Strat thing. I guess many could say the same about not liking Teles with a the U or boat neck. Did they ever use those on a Strat? I don't know... You could say that about Teles & I’d say it was valid whether or not I agreed It means you have to be careful when buying them-so it can be a thing you like or don’t like Which is all it is If you like V necks or you don’t care. That’s cool too I wouldn’t expect us to all agree on every point To me, feel is the most important thing in a guitar Other things can be changed, but feel might not be changeable (With a Strat the neck could easily be swapped out, but if you don’t have to- even cooler)
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Post by johnreardon on Mar 1, 2021 9:10:46 GMT
Funny that one of the dislikes pointed out was the v-profiled neck. I've only had one guitar with one (my 1985 MIJ Tele TL-62) which, I think, was a hard V. I bought the guitar used from a coworker, having looked at it but not played it, and really wasn't aware of it until I got it home. Initially, it felt a bit strange, but I found I got used to it and eventually found it comfortable. I've never encountered another guitar with a V neck profile.....It's not something I'd particularly search for in choosing a guitar, but it wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me. I have never had a problem with necks. I haven't got big hands, but can just about play any size neck
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Post by zontar on Mar 1, 2021 9:18:20 GMT
Funny that one of the dislikes pointed out was the v-profiled neck. I've only had one guitar with one (my 1985 MIJ Tele TL-62) which, I think, was a hard V. I bought the guitar used from a coworker, having looked at it but not played it, and really wasn't aware of it until I got it home. Initially, it felt a bit strange, but I found I got used to it and eventually found it comfortable. I've never encountered another guitar with a V neck profile.....It's not something I'd particularly search for in choosing a guitar, but it wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me. I have never had a problem with necks. I haven't got big hands, but can just about play any size neck I love big chunky necks, like on some Gibsons & I love the small neck on myMustang--I've good that way--just the way I usually have my hand a V neck doesn't work. And it's uncomfortable. Hard Vs especially--but even soft Vs Fortunately most necks I encounter aren't V necks--btut they're out there. Most other necks I get along with--although the flat shredder type necks fell like they're going to break on me.
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Post by Die Bullen on Mar 1, 2021 13:18:01 GMT
Funny that one of the dislikes pointed out was the v-profiled neck. I've only had one guitar with one (my 1985 MIJ Tele TL-62) which, I think, was a hard V. I bought the guitar used from a coworker, having looked at it but not played it, and really wasn't aware of it until I got it home. Initially, it felt a bit strange, but I found I got used to it and eventually found it comfortable. I've never encountered another guitar with a V neck profile.....It's not something I'd particularly search for in choosing a guitar, but it wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me. I have never had a problem with necks. I haven't got big hands, but can just about play any size neck Me either. I've played a lot of archtops with baseball bat necks. My tele had a U, my JM has a V and my strat has a C. Although the really thin C necks aren't comfortable to me
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Post by Bill h on Mar 1, 2021 19:02:29 GMT
I’ve been playing my strat almost exclusively lately. It’s just a tough warhorse of a guitar. Even with the mini-buckers I put in it the light natural ash body gives it a fairly thin sound which for me was unbearable when the singles we’re in there. I still love the lp’s with the studio being my favorite but even when I do use an lp for a while the strat always works it’s way back.
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Post by Die Bullen on Mar 1, 2021 19:19:20 GMT
I’ve been playing my strat almost exclusively lately. It’s just a tough warhorse of a guitar. Even with the mini-buckers I put in it the light natural ash body gives it a fairly thin sound which for me was unbearable when the singles we’re in there. I still love the lp’s with the studio being my favorite but even when I do use an lp for a while the strat always works it’s way back. I can see why one would say that the strat single coils could be thin. I have '54 custom shop pickups in my strat and my neck pickup is CLEARLY way better than the other two (to my ear). That one isn't thin at all.
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Post by Bill h on Mar 1, 2021 20:04:57 GMT
I’ve been playing my strat almost exclusively lately. It’s just a tough warhorse of a guitar. Even with the mini-buckers I put in it the light natural ash body gives it a fairly thin sound which for me was unbearable when the singles we’re in there. I still love the lp’s with the studio being my favorite but even when I do use an lp for a while the strat always works it’s way back. I can see why one would say that the strat single coils could be thin. I have '54 custom shop pickups in my strat and my neck pickup is CLEARLY way better than the other two (to my ear). That one isn't thin at all. I’ve played other strats in the past that had much deeper tones, I attribute that to the wood it was made from not so much the pickups in my opinion. Mine is made from swamp ash, known for its resonance and leans toward the thin side of the tone world. To be honest, I had no clue of any of that when I bought it in 2000, I just thought it was the nicest looking fender I had ever seen and it played great. At the time my mindset was that I could mod it to get the tone I wanted and had no idea what a challenge that would be.
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Post by Die Bullen on Mar 1, 2021 20:16:58 GMT
I can see why one would say that the strat single coils could be thin. I have '54 custom shop pickups in my strat and my neck pickup is CLEARLY way better than the other two (to my ear). That one isn't thin at all. I’ve played other strats in the past that had much deeper tones, I attribute that to the wood it was made from not so much the pickups in my opinion. Mine is made from swamp ash, known for its resonance and leans toward the thin side of the tone world. To be honest, I had no clue of any of that when I bought it in 2000, I just thought it was the nicest looking fender I had ever seen and it played great. At the time my mindset was that I could mod it to get the tone I wanted and had no idea what a challenge that would be. I think mine is alder but you'd never see the grain as it is a opaque finish.
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Post by Bill h on Mar 1, 2021 20:29:35 GMT
I’ve played other strats in the past that had much deeper tones, I attribute that to the wood it was made from not so much the pickups in my opinion. Mine is made from swamp ash, known for its resonance and leans toward the thin side of the tone world. To be honest, I had no clue of any of that when I bought it in 2000, I just thought it was the nicest looking fender I had ever seen and it played great. At the time my mindset was that I could mod it to get the tone I wanted and had no idea what a challenge that would be. I think mine is alder but you'd never see the grain as it is a opaque finish. Yeah, that light swamp ash is beautiful. When the single coils were in it, it was like running your nails across a chalkboard, granted, it was my first strat and I was coming from playing nothing but heavy rock/metal and transitioning to playing in pop/rock cover bands at the time. I was looking for versatility which I found but just needed the guitar to be a little deeper. Even with the changes it still sounds like a fender.
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Post by Die Bullen on Mar 1, 2021 20:35:44 GMT
I think mine is alder but you'd never see the grain as it is a opaque finish. Yeah, that light swamp ash is beautiful. When the single coils were in it, it was like running your nails across a chalkboard, granted, it was my first strat and I was coming from playing nothing but heavy rock/metal and transitioning to playing in pop/rock cover bands at the time. I was looking for versatility which I found but just needed the guitar to be a little deeper. Even with the changes it still sounds like a fender. I just remembered too, when I bought mine I had a very large tone cap installed to improve the low end. I must admit, my strat with flat 11's plays marvelously.
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Post by Bill h on Mar 1, 2021 21:07:13 GMT
Yeah, that light swamp ash is beautiful. When the single coils were in it, it was like running your nails across a chalkboard, granted, it was my first strat and I was coming from playing nothing but heavy rock/metal and transitioning to playing in pop/rock cover bands at the time. I was looking for versatility which I found but just needed the guitar to be a little deeper. Even with the changes it still sounds like a fender. I just remembered too, when I bought mine I had a very large tone cap installed to improve the low end. I must admit, my strat with flat 11's plays marvelously. Wow 11’s, I tried that many years ago on the explorer I had, aside from having to tweak the truss they were just to much for my fingers. I’ve never experimented with the electronics in a guitar with the exception of my strat p/u’s which I had done for me. You guys have way more knowledge in that area then I do.
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Post by Die Bullen on Mar 2, 2021 0:24:32 GMT
I just remembered too, when I bought mine I had a very large tone cap installed to improve the low end. I must admit, my strat with flat 11's plays marvelously. Wow 11’s, I tried that many years ago on the explorer I had, aside from having to tweak the truss they were just to much for my fingers. I’ve never experimented with the electronics in a guitar with the exception of my strat p/u’s which I had done for me. You guys have way more knowledge in that area then I do. 11's are my lightest weight strings! Most of them are 13's... Admittedly, I think the other guys here have probably experimented with guitar electronics more than me. Really high treble is just not usable for the music I play so I use a much larger tone cap to cut the highs and add to the lows.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 3:12:17 GMT
I find it a bit puzzling that Fender has stuck almost exclusively with the boat jack mounted on the face of the Strat. The fact that they've occasionally built models with a side-mounted jack means it's possible from a production standpoint, and that angle-mounted front jack has always represented a potential problem with some types of cables. I've tended to adopt the flipped boat jack plate as a solution, but the fact that Fender's stuck with this fashion-over-functionality for decades is hard to understand.
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Post by infant on Mar 2, 2021 3:32:16 GMT
I think the larger edge radius on the Strat made it difficult to use the cup jack from the Tele as there isn’t enough “flat” surface to mount it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 4:42:24 GMT
I think the larger edge radius on the Strat made it difficult to use the cup jack from the Tele as there isn’t enough “flat” surface to mount it. I remember there being a series of Strat that was bit stripped down....It had two controls instead of three and the jack boat was gone, with the jack in the edge of the body. I thought I remembered it being an American model that they only produced for a year or two, but I might be mistaken....Maybe an MIJ or Korean-made model. I should go looking online, just for fun.
Okay, it's faulty memory on my part....It was done on an 83 Stratocaster. THis is at the end of what's known as the "Dan Smith era" and they were made in the USA. There's only two knobs, but the second tone position at the bottom is replaced by a jack in the pickguard.
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Post by infant on Mar 2, 2021 4:56:26 GMT
Ya those came out during the transition from CBS to current management IIRC.
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