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Post by Die Bullen on Dec 16, 2020 17:10:56 GMT
Getting another topic for discussion out there- what kind of PA do you use?
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Post by infant on Dec 17, 2020 1:39:36 GMT
Okay, I’ll go first....
Right now we are using a Yamaha EMX 68S powered mixer into two Peavey PR12 speakers for FOH and we use two Behringer P1020 speakers on stands as side wash monitors. We also have a Peavey XR600G powered mixer as a backup. Both mixers are splittable into mains and monitors with separate EQ for each.. The Yamaha will give us 400w @4ohms into each mains and monitors. The Peavey is a little less powerful at 200w@4ohms into each. We can use either one as we never max out the master volumes on either one.
When I first joined this band, the other horn player (who only plays with us once in a while), had bought the PA system from my old band. It consisted of a Biamp 12 channel mixer > Yamaha EQ > Delay> Bryston 4B amplifier powering 2 Electrovoice Speakers and a Bryston 3B powering a pair of Klipsch LaScala bass bins This was a VERY LOUD system, 400W + 300 W per side... total of 1400W to FOH. We used to play events of up to 1500 people with this system. However that was the old days when we used to play large venues like that. Besides, that was a huge system to lug around and pretty much OVERKILL for the events of 300 people and less that we currently play. We never used this full system in my current band as it was too much, so we dropped the 3B and bass bins but it was still pretty much overkill.
So when my wife’s uncle left me his Peavey PA system when he passed, we started using it right away. I already had the Behringer P1020 speakers and we started using them as monitors. When I saw the Yamaha for sale on Kijiji, I picked it up for $100CAD as a backup. It’s moved its way to the main system once we checked out the specs and saw that we could have lots of extra power available. But like I said, for the size of events we currently play, we could use either unit.
Once this band packs it in, I plan on selling everything and investing into one of those Bose L1 or HK Audio Polar 10 compact PAs as I still plan on doing some small trio gigs with my keyboard and bass players. I also do some small acoustic gigs with the bass player too so this will be a nice small system to lug around.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2020 2:04:08 GMT
When I started Bandemic, a classic rock band early in the summer, we didn't have any PA gear. We weren't having any luck attracting a singer with a PA, so I decided to buy us one. I ended up with a used Fender Passport Venue system for 650.00, which is a midline model in their PA line of gear. It's 300 watts RMS, which I think would be adequate for rehearsals and small venues. The one thing I read repeatedly in customer reviews before I bought it was that speaker stands made a huge difference. When we tried it the first time at practice, I had each of the speakers set on chairs. The volume was enough for practice, but I initially had doubts that it would be enough of a powerhouse to gig with. I ended up going to Long & McQuade and asked them if they'd price-match a sound and lighting company in Ottawa that had the Fender tripods on sale for 99.00. They told me that the Fender stands were discontinued and they couldn't even order them anymore, but they showed me a set of Yorkville tripods that normally retailed for 189.00. They said that I'd pay at least 30.00 shipping to get the Fender stands from back east, but they'd sell me the Yorkville stands for 130.00. I bought them, and they appear to be good quality. The only criticism I have is that they're heavier to carry....The Fender stands were aluminum and the Yorkville stands are steel. Anyway, I've ended up with a PA that weighs 46 lb that I can carry in one hand, and tripod stands in a bag that are about 40 lb that I can carry in the other. I was astounded at the difference it made to get the speakers up in the air. I'd venture to say that the system with the speakers on the tripods is loud enough for anywhere one of my bands would be likely to play. www.long-mcquade.com/43258/Pro-Audio---Recording/PA-Speaker-Cabinets/Fender-Musical-Instruments/Passport-VENUE-600-Watt-Portable-Speakers.htm
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Post by Die Bullen on Dec 17, 2020 2:05:26 GMT
I have 2x JBL Eon315 self powered PA speakers and a venerable MIA 12 channel Mackey mixer. Certainly not something that would power the band at the Meadowlands but good for most outdoor gigs. The only gripe I have with the Mackey is there are only 4xXLR inputs, which really isn't enough. infant- you said the other horn player in the above post. Do you play horns?
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Post by infant on Dec 17, 2020 5:01:00 GMT
We have two horn players in the band but one lives about 150 miles away. He would come in for a well paying gig and use it as an excuse to visit with his mom and family. We play stuff by Chicago, Blues Brothers, Average White Band etc....stuff with horns or sax. When we don't have the second horn, the keyboard player helps to cover for it.
edit: I used to play trombone in high school.
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Post by infant on Dec 17, 2020 5:06:41 GMT
When I started Bandemic, a classic rock band early in the summer, we didn't have any PA gear. We weren't having any luck attracting a singer with a PA, so I decided to buy us one. I ended up with a used Fender Passport Venue system for 650.00, which is a midline model in their PA line of gear. It's 300 watts RMS, which I think would be adequate for rehearsals and small venues. The one thing I read repeatedly in customer reviews before I bought it was that speaker stands made a huge difference. When we tried it the first time at practice, I had each of the speakers set on chairs. The volume was enough for practice, but I initially had doubts that it would be enough of a powerhouse to gig with. I ended up going to Long & McQuade and asked them if they'd price-match a sound and lighting company in Ottawa that had the Fender tripods on sale for 99.00. They told me that the Fender stands were discontinued and they couldn't even order them anymore, but they showed me a set of Yorkville tripods that normally retailed for 189.00. They said that I'd pay at least 30.00 shipping to get the Fender stands from back east, but they'd sell me the Yorkville stands for 130.00. I bought them, and they appear to be good quality. The only criticism I have is that they're heavier to carry....The Fender stands were aluminum and the Yorkville stands are steel. Anyway, I've ended up with a PA that weighs 46 lb that I can carry in one hand, and tripod stands in a bag that are about 40 lb that I can carry in the other. I was astounded at the difference it made to get the speakers up in the air. I'd venture to say that the system with the speakers on the tripods is loud enough for anywhere one of my bands would be likely to play. www.long-mcquade.com/43258/Pro-Audio---Recording/PA-Speaker-Cabinets/Fender-Musical-Instruments/Passport-VENUE-600-Watt-Portable-Speakers.htmI've got those same yorkville stands. Heavy as hell but sturdy. Just tighten up all the nuts on them. I had a nut fall off in the trunk of my car once. I was lucky that I saw it before the gig or one of the legs would have fallen off. I also have a set of aluminum stands that came with the Peavey system...half the weight of the yorkvilles. BTW: Bandemic....what a great name!! Especially in 2020!
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Post by zontar on Dec 17, 2020 7:14:48 GMT
I don't own a PA--no need. But when I play at church there is a PA.
The board is a Behrinegr--btu there is often talk of getting a better one. We have a power amp--but I forget the brand. And we have Bose speakers--which work great--especially for the bass.
I know people who have those portable Bose systems for performing solo or in duos--and they love them.
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Post by johnreardon on Dec 17, 2020 9:48:35 GMT
I have a couple of Peavey mixers, one powered and another un-powered.
The main one I use for most gigs is the Peavey XR1212 1200w Powered 12 Channel Mixer, which I link up to 2 Peavey PRO 15 cabinets, giving me 1200 watts. For bigger gigs, I can also plug in 2 active Peavey PVXp-12 cabs increasing the total to 2000 watts.
I carry the un-powered smaller mixer as a spare. I usually have the 2 active speakers in my van. so it just means swapping them out
I usually try to keep the mixer next to me as you can just about see in this video to my right
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Post by Die Bullen on Dec 17, 2020 13:02:14 GMT
At least you have a van, John. My biggest car is a VW Golf Sportwagen so when I have to bring my PA the car is literally jammed floor to ceiling. And I always have 2 other people in the car (my kids)
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Post by infant on Dec 17, 2020 14:50:14 GMT
DB, I used to fit my whole PA (4 speakers, 2 powered mixers, 4 stands), milk crate full of cables, guitar, Deluxe reverb amp, pedalboard, mic stand, lighting stands, 2 light cans and a small briefcase with my guitar related accessories into a 2011 Ford Fusion. It all fit in like a jigsaw puzzle. I now drive a 2018 Hyundai Tucson (IX35 for John) and there’s a bit more room in it..
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Post by Die Bullen on Dec 17, 2020 16:01:13 GMT
DB, I used to fit my whole PA (4 speakers, 2 powered mixers, 4 stands), milk crate full of cables, guitar, Deluxe reverb amp, pedalboard, mic stand, lighting stands, 2 light cans and a small briefcase with my guitar related accessories into a 2011 Ford Fusion. It all fit in like a jigsaw puzzle. I now drive a 2018 Hyundai Tucson (IX35 for John) and there’s a bit more room in it.. Yeah mine is also like a jigsaw puzzle, especially with the PA. Before covid I used to have to drive the sousaphone/ trombone player to gigs too because the guy was always late, but with his stuff too I simply can't fit the PA. The sousaphone is large and oddly shaped even with the bell off
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2020 18:04:26 GMT
Infant said: Once this band packs it in, I plan on selling everything and investing into one of those Bose L1 or HK Audio Polar 10 compact PAs as I still plan on doing some small trio gigs with my keyboard and bass players. I also do some small acoustic gigs with the bass player too so this will be a nice small system to lug around.
The band I was playing with last fall has one of those Bose systems, although I don't know what model. It seems to be a small woofer enclosure at the bottom and a thin pedestal that stands about 7 ft high mounted on top of it....Just a single unit, rather than pairs of speakers like most PA's, and he would put it at the back of the stage behind us. The small footprint is a big advantage on a small stage. The singer/guitar player that owned it was gigging as a single with taped backgrounds previously but it worked equally well in the band. He used to have 65 Deluxe Reverb Reissue for his guitar, but he sold it and just plugged his pedal board directly into the PA and it sounded great.
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Post by infant on Dec 17, 2020 19:39:57 GMT
The horn player that joins us from time to time plays in a trio up where he lives and he bought the Bose L1 last year after selling some of that old huge system. He absolutely loves it. Best of all, he sets it up behind everyone and they don’t need monitors. This would be great for my own trio gigs as we could all plug into it. Currently when we do trio gigs, I bring the Peavey or Yamaha mixer and the two PR12 speakers and stands. The Bose L1 would be a major downsizing.
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Post by Die Bullen on Dec 18, 2020 1:33:55 GMT
That L1 does look cool, but do you think it could be used outside? I'd love to downsize at some point but I'd need to make sure that I don't lose the power of those 15" speakers on my JBL. I don't generally need the PA indoors but definitely need it outside
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Post by zontar on Dec 18, 2020 2:18:57 GMT
You can get add ons to the basic system Their bass speakers have great response in my experience So that may help
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2020 2:44:37 GMT
You can get add ons to the basic system Their bass speakers have great response in my experience So that may help Another consideration might be that I don't think the Bose PA speakers utilize that direct-reflecting design that Bose was so fond of in their home audio line, so I would expect the PA line to be more forgiving of the fact that there isn't neccessarily a contained environment for the speaker to operate in.
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Post by johnreardon on Dec 18, 2020 9:36:46 GMT
At least you have a van, John. My biggest car is a VW Golf Sportwagen so when I have to bring my PA the car is literally jammed floor to ceiling. And I always have 2 other people in the car (my kids) My van is a VW Caddy, which is based on the Golf. I can get quite a bit in it. Managed everything bar the drums for this gig
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Post by johnreardon on Dec 18, 2020 9:48:16 GMT
Infant said: Once this band packs it in, I plan on selling everything and investing into one of those Bose L1 or HK Audio Polar 10 compact PAs as I still plan on doing some small trio gigs with my keyboard and bass players. I also do some small acoustic gigs with the bass player too so this will be a nice small system to lug around. The band I was playing with last fall has one of those Bose systems, although I don't know what model. It seems to be a small woofer enclosure at the bottom and a thin pedestal that stands about 7 ft high mounted on top of it....Just a single unit, rather than pairs of speakers like most PA's, and he would put it at the back of the stage behind us. The small footprint is a big advantage on a small stage. The singer/guitar player that owned it was gigging as a single with taped backgrounds previously but it worked equally well in the band. He used to have 65 Deluxe Reverb Reissue for his guitar, but he sold it and just plugged his pedal board directly into the PA and it sounded great. We used one of those digital things with small speakers going up a pole sat on a sub woofer. At the time it seemed like a good idea. They were clear, but seemed to lack the oomph you get with 12 or 15 inch speakers. So we went back to my PA.
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Post by Die Bullen on Dec 18, 2020 13:38:38 GMT
@john- do you think that adding subs would fix that problem or lack of oomph?
I'm genuinely interested in a lighter/ smaller PA at some point but I would need to make sure it can deliver what I need for those occasions when I have to bring a PA but can't afford a sound guy.
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Post by Die Bullen on Dec 18, 2020 13:40:04 GMT
At least you have a van, John. My biggest car is a VW Golf Sportwagen so when I have to bring my PA the car is literally jammed floor to ceiling. And I always have 2 other people in the car (my kids) My van is a VW Caddy, which is based on the Golf. I can get quite a bit in it. Managed everything bar the drums for this gig
Based on the Golf, but a lot higher- remember I always have 2 additional people in the car too!
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Post by johnreardon on Dec 18, 2020 20:00:51 GMT
@john- do you think that adding subs would fix that problem or lack of oomph? I'm genuinely interested in a lighter/ smaller PA at some point but I would need to make sure it can deliver what I need for those occasions when I have to bring a PA but can't afford a sound guy. It did have 15" subs that the columns slotted into, so it didn't really give the same oomph as 15" cabs on stands. You can see one on the right hand side of the pic above. They were just as heavy as my 15" cabs. so while the small columns were light, the total wasn't. If it was me, I would go for two 12" cabs on stands. If you have a powered mixer, they are not too heavy. My 12s are powered so a bit heavier
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Post by Die Bullen on Dec 18, 2020 20:01:48 GMT
So today I went over to Guitar Center and I was looking at the Bose discussed above. I also was looking at the equivalent Electrovoice Evolve 30m. Of the two I think I liked the EV more. Any experience with them? I'm seriously debating trading in my Eons for the EV. I like the 6xXLR inputs on that EV...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2020 1:45:31 GMT
I suspect that most of the modern minimalist PA's share one thing in common....They don't make bottom end like the oldtime W-bins did. My Fender's got an output for a subwoofer - When one is plugged in, it activates a high pass filter that cuts off low frequency response to the satellites, I think at about 120 hz, and the sub output sends a low level signal to an active sub with everything that's below 120 hz. Strangely, the Fender unit that was designed for the Fender Passport systems is no longer available. It was a 12" woofer in a bass reflex enclosure with a front firing port powered by a 500 watt amplifier. I just noticed, in reading about it, that it was designed to be pole mounted, so if you were using tripods for your satellites, the sub was designed to be mounted up high as well.
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Post by infant on Dec 20, 2020 4:48:06 GMT
Usually, the subs have a pole adapter on top of them. They sit on the floor, the poles mount into the subs and the main speakers fit on to of the poles. Kinda like the ones in Johns photo. No need for the tripods.
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Post by johnreardon on Dec 20, 2020 9:21:44 GMT
Usually, the subs have a pole adapter on top of them. They sit on the floor, the poles mount into the subs and the main speakers fit on to of the poles. Kinda like the ones in Johns photo. No need for the tripods. That's it.
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Post by Die Bullen on Dec 20, 2020 15:20:04 GMT
So what do you guys think- will the EV 30m replace my EON 315's for outdoor use?
Let's preface that buy saying the EON's are hardly world class, but they are fairly loud
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Post by infant on Dec 20, 2020 17:05:41 GMT
I’ve never seen the EV systems up here in Canada. I’ve seen a few people using the Bose systems and have been impressed by the volume and clarity. A guy that I worked with bought 2 Bose L1 systems for his band shortly before entertainment facilities were closed down in March so he hasn’t used them in a live show.
My “part time” band mate that lives up north bought an L1 last year after renting it and comparing it to the Yorkville Sound Excursion Mini which he rented for another gig. He said it was much clearer than the Yorkville with better bass response.
Personally, I’d like to try the (Hughes and Kettner) HK Audio Polar 10. Costs less than the L1, 4 channel, 10” woofer, Bluetooth and they say 2000 watt total power although that can’t be RMS wattage. Check this one out too as it gets great reviews.
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Post by Bill h on Dec 20, 2020 17:42:49 GMT
When I get home I’m going to snap some pics of the pa were using right now, detail exactly how we’re using it, and get your advice. My wife handles the pa mostly and after years of messing with pa’s of various sizes and makes she would tell you she is still struggling running one and I’m just clueless when it comes to them. We’re really struggling with this one for some reason and I’m pretty sure it’s the way we’re running it. Next time I post in this thread I’ll break it all down with some pics and see what you guys think.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2020 18:28:33 GMT
I was just browsing through some PA gear listings. I came across a Fender speaker that's called a Fighter...12" and a tweeter with an 1100 watt amplifier. It caught my eye because dB mentioned having Eon's which this review of the Fender remarks on - "Dragged around a JBL EON cabinet for a number of years to use with my keys for stage. I'm not getting younger, and that 50 some pounds was getting awfully heavy to put on the stand. This cabinet is almost half the weight, way more power, better overall frequency sound, and is saving my back! I opted for the 10" as opposed to the 12" because the only difference is on the low end. The 10 covers to 54 htz and the 12 covers to 50. For not even a half an octave difference, I believe I made the right choice. If your miking drums and bass guitar ... I'd buy the 12". The weight on the Fender speaker's only 3.3 kg which would be an easier lift to pole-mount. And, I'm guessing if there's response down to 50 or 54 hz, depending on whether it's the 12" or 10", it probably works well without sub-woofer reinforcement. www.amazon.ca/Fender-Fighter-2-Way-Powered-Speaker/dp/B0741C5JD8/ref=pd_day0_7?pd_rd_w=9tIKh&pf_rd_p=e60d9525-48cc-45b2-8b77-5ffa4e75df30&pf_rd_r=RZ3B3YWB8EZ431H1F6TF&pd_rd_r=42237047-de2a-4b72-82cc-4d4985c99752&pd_rd_wg=PJOP4&pd_rd_i=B0741C5JD8&th=1
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Post by Die Bullen on Dec 20, 2020 23:03:13 GMT
Thanks I will look up the H&K audio polar and that Fender after dinner!
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