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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2021 3:05:04 GMT
I was about to say that I'd never owned a modelling amp, but realized that I had a short-lived experience with a Fender G-Dec Jr. I bought it used on eBay, assuming that it was going to be a slightly scaled-down version of the G-Dec 30. It was, to say the least, a disappointment....Almost toy-like, and while it might have been a decent first amp for a kid just starting out, it didn't have any capabilities that made me want to keep it. I can't think of any other modelling amps that I've really hungered for. I've seen an amp - the name's escaped me - advertised on Facebook when it first came out, that looked somewhat interesting....I think it was called Spark, or something similar. If I had to get rid of my Twin and find a small amp, I'd possibly look at one. But, it seems to me that these modelling amps, at their best, can only provide an imitation of something else, and if I really wanted what it's emulating, I'd buy the real thing.
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Post by zontar on Jul 11, 2021 3:23:38 GMT
I was about to say that I'd never owned a modelling amp, but realized that I had a short-lived experience with a Fender G-Dec Jr. I bought it used on eBay, assuming that it was going to be a slightly scaled-down version of the G-Dec 30. It was, to say the least, a disappointment....Almost toy-like, and while it might have been a decent first amp for a kid just starting out, it didn't have any capabilities that made me want to keep it. I can't think of any other modelling amps that I've really hungered for. I've seen an amp - the name's escaped me - advertised on Facebook when it first came out, that looked somewhat interesting....I think it was called Spark, or something similar. If I had to get rid of my Twin and find a small amp, I'd possibly look at one. But, it seems to me that these modelling amps, at their best, can only provide an imitation of something else, and if I really wanted what it's emulating, I'd buy the real thing. Hey I love my G-Dec Jr--but I had played them before I bought it--so I knew what I was getting I got it as a light practice amp with a variety of sounds & backing tracks to play with. There are some cool sounds on it-& some I will never use again. but not every amp is for every situation or every person. Not the best amp ever, for sure, but I wasn't expecting it to be & didn't need it to be.
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Post by infant on Jul 11, 2021 3:52:17 GMT
Any thoughts on the Yamaha THR20W. I was wondering about one of those as a couch amp. I like them, they have some cool features to play around with. I don't own one--but I have considered it. Never played one but I’ve heard lots of great things about the Yamahas. However, they are mainly for home use.
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Post by Die Bullen on Jul 11, 2021 12:57:10 GMT
I was about to say that I'd never owned a modelling amp, but realized that I had a short-lived experience with a Fender G-Dec Jr. I bought it used on eBay, assuming that it was going to be a slightly scaled-down version of the G-Dec 30. It was, to say the least, a disappointment....Almost toy-like, and while it might have been a decent first amp for a kid just starting out, it didn't have any capabilities that made me want to keep it. I can't think of any other modelling amps that I've really hungered for. I've seen an amp - the name's escaped me - advertised on Facebook when it first came out, that looked somewhat interesting....I think it was called Spark, or something similar. If I had to get rid of my Twin and find a small amp, I'd possibly look at one. But, it seems to me that these modelling amps, at their best, can only provide an imitation of something else, and if I really wanted what it's emulating, I'd buy the real thing. I felt the same way about the GDEC- no offense intended to any owners
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Post by highdeaf on Jul 11, 2021 18:25:48 GMT
But, it seems to me that these modelling amps, at their best, can only provide an imitation of something else, and if I really wanted what it's emulating, I'd buy the real thing.
That is a simple explanation for what they do.
If you can't set up amps/cabs and mics and leave them for months on end, they certainly allow for repeatable recording tones in an instant. What used to be hours of work matching tones from a session last March has evaporated to 20 seconds of dialing up a saved profile.
As a quiet practice amp, they are far superior to any tube amp - even if you use a reamper (and especially if you use an attenuator). I laugh when people ask about 5 to 15 watt tube amps for apartment playing. A 5 watt amp is about as loud as trumpet or sax blown hard, especially if you're trying to get into the power tubes. Tube amps are not very good as 'home amps only' unless you've got a lot of space or a soundproofed room.
I agree they're not for everyone. Steep learning curve, lots of options/tweeking. Some people aren't into that. But when you consider the tone hounds, like Mark Knopfler and many others, who now choose to use one live, you have to admit those imitations are pretty good, and only getting better (point of diminished returns now, the improvements are less every iteration). Those guys can use whatever they want. It isn't easy, but if you are willing to work on it (or pay your guitar tech to do it, like Mark did), the results can be very satisfying.
Not to mention, if I bought everything I've 'imitated' and kept, it would cost me well into 5 figures and close to 6. If I bought everything including what I've briefly tried and thrown out, well past 6 figures.
Then there's the tonal flexibility and programming options compared to the 1 and 2 channel tube amps out there (I owned a 4 channel Roadster and it was still very limited compared to my KPA - not to mention 100+ lbs it weighed). A godsend for gigging if you're not an 'originals' band, IME.
I still occasionally play my tube amps out or at practice, but it is getting less and less all the time. I miss the instant access of multiple tones when playing a two channel amp with a few pedals. A midi setup could get me close, but at what cost and how much complication? Just for pure tones that get screwed up by the soundman and/or lost in the band mix anyways. LOL
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Post by Kerry Brown on Jul 11, 2021 22:58:07 GMT
Since COVID I haven’t played live. I’ve been trying to write and record songs. With a DAW and some good plugins I can instantly get any tone I want and then repeat it on demand. I’m thinking seriously about going digital with an interface into a computer then out to the house or a keyboard or some other clean amp. Just writing this has me thinking. I may be able to go into the Focusrite to computer then back out through the Focusrite to my Quilter 101R which can be setup for very loud cleans.
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Post by Kerry Brown on Jul 12, 2021 0:12:10 GMT
Since COVID I haven’t played live. I’ve been trying to write and record songs. With a DAW and some good plugins I can instantly get any tone I want and then repeat it on demand. I’m thinking seriously about going digital with an interface into a computer then out to the house or a keyboard or some other clean amp. Just writing this has me thinking. I may be able to go into the Focusrite to computer then back out through the Focusrite to my Quilter 101R which can be setup for very loud cleans. I just tried this works great. Line out from the Focusrite to the loop return on the Quilter. Works great.
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Post by Die Bullen on Jul 12, 2021 0:44:08 GMT
Since COVID I haven’t played live. I’ve been trying to write and record songs. With a DAW and some good plugins I can instantly get any tone I want and then repeat it on demand. I’m thinking seriously about going digital with an interface into a computer then out to the house or a keyboard or some other clean amp. Just writing this has me thinking. I may be able to go into the Focusrite to computer then back out through the Focusrite to my Quilter 101R which can be setup for very loud cleans. I just tried this works great. Line out from the Focusrite to the loop return on the Quilter. Works great. Focusrite is a great tool!
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Post by Colchar on Jul 12, 2021 4:32:43 GMT
As a quiet practice amp, they are far superior to any tube amp - even if you use a reamper (and especially if you use an attenuator). I laugh when people ask about 5 to 15 watt tube amps for apartment playing. A 5 watt amp is about as loud as trumpet or sax blown hard, especially if you're trying to get into the power tubes. Tube amps are not very good as 'home amps only' unless you've got a lot of space or a soundproofed room. My 100 watt Marshall says If technophobes like me didn't have to learn what IRs are and how to use them, I might be more inclined to explore modellers. Or I would have been before buying this Marshall because the low volume tones you get with modellers and the ability to go from a Marshall to a Fender to a Hiwatt at the touch of a button is certainly appealing. Apparently the Boss GT-1000 units have decent modelling in them. I have a GT-100 and perhaps should have tried screwing around with the modelling in it before buying another monster tube head.
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Post by zontar on Jul 12, 2021 6:28:34 GMT
I was about to say that I'd never owned a modelling amp, but realized that I had a short-lived experience with a Fender G-Dec Jr. I bought it used on eBay, assuming that it was going to be a slightly scaled-down version of the G-Dec 30. It was, to say the least, a disappointment....Almost toy-like, and while it might have been a decent first amp for a kid just starting out, it didn't have any capabilities that made me want to keep it. I can't think of any other modelling amps that I've really hungered for. I've seen an amp - the name's escaped me - advertised on Facebook when it first came out, that looked somewhat interesting....I think it was called Spark, or something similar. If I had to get rid of my Twin and find a small amp, I'd possibly look at one. But, it seems to me that these modelling amps, at their best, can only provide an imitation of something else, and if I really wanted what it's emulating, I'd buy the real thing. I felt the same way about the GDEC- no offense intended to any owners None taken--it all depends on what you want from an amp, etc. But always good to see why people did or didn't like something--even if we disagree.
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Post by highdeaf on Jul 12, 2021 13:37:28 GMT
As a quiet practice amp, they are far superior to any tube amp - even if you use a reamper (and especially if you use an attenuator). I laugh when people ask about 5 to 15 watt tube amps for apartment playing. A 5 watt amp is about as loud as trumpet or sax blown hard, especially if you're trying to get into the power tubes. Tube amps are not very good as 'home amps only' unless you've got a lot of space or a soundproofed room. My 100 watt Marshall says If technophobes like me didn't have to learn what IRs are and how to use them, I might be more inclined to explore modellers. Or I would have been before buying this Marshall because the low volume tones you get with modellers and the ability to go from a Marshall to a Fender to a Hiwatt at the touch of a button is certainly appealing. Apparently the Boss GT-1000 units have decent modelling in them. I have a GT-100 and perhaps should have tried screwing around with the modelling in it before buying another monster tube head.
To me, the last battlefield is the actual tone. Modelers/profilers have most of the advantages on their side, but whether 'the tone is there' is still hotly debated. Whether one says it is or isn't, I don't think anyone can deny digital stuff is getting better all the time. I can see how players who choose tone ultimately over all else can stay with their tube amps - I mean, it's worked for decades and will keep doing the job for that much longer. If it ain't broke .......
I didn't believe it for a long time. I was cautious and took some time to jump in (a good deal helped me take the leap). Modelers weren't going away. I had to try one. And it did take longer to get a good grip on it than I thought, so I'm glad I started when I did.
I'm not anti-tubes or anything. I still play my tube amps. At this point, I may sell one or two, but there's at least two (Mesa LSS and TA15) that aren't going anywhere - both discontinued now, and the LSS is mod'd quite a bit.
But I will also keep going down this digital path. There's quite possibly an Axe-FX in my future. Or KPA V2, if one is ever produced. To me, the tube amp itch has been well-scratched and I feel like I've hit the end of that path because I have what I feel is the best for me - I've tried just about all of it and no one is really creating new tube circuits. I have what I like and I don't see anything 'new' on that horizon changing that. If you're looking for new ideas or sonic landscapes, digital is a lot more likely to provide that.
It's a great time to be a player. So many choices and for relatively little money. Guitars, amps, pedals, recording gear. If I had these options as a teen, I mighta made something of myself, I mighta been a contenda.
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Post by Die Bullen on Jul 12, 2021 15:24:55 GMT
My 100 watt Marshall says If technophobes like me didn't have to learn what IRs are and how to use them, I might be more inclined to explore modellers. Or I would have been before buying this Marshall because the low volume tones you get with modellers and the ability to go from a Marshall to a Fender to a Hiwatt at the touch of a button is certainly appealing. Apparently the Boss GT-1000 units have decent modelling in them. I have a GT-100 and perhaps should have tried screwing around with the modelling in it before buying another monster tube head.
To me, the last battlefield is the actual tone. Modelers/profilers have most of the advantages on their side, but whether 'the tone is there' is still hotly debated. Whether one says it is or isn't, I don't think anyone can deny digital stuff is getting better all the time. I can see how players who choose tone ultimately over all else can stay with their tube amps - I mean, it's worked for decades and will keep doing the job for that much longer. If it ain't broke .......
I didn't believe it for a long time. I was cautious and took some time to jump in (a good deal helped me take the leap). Modelers weren't going away. I had to try one. And it did take longer to get a good grip on it than I thought, so I'm glad I started when I did.
I'm not anti-tubes or anything. I still play my tube amps. At this point, I may sell one or two, but there's at least two (Mesa LSS and TA15) that aren't going anywhere - both discontinued now, and the LSS is mod'd quite a bit.
But I will also keep going down this digital path. There's quite possibly an Axe-FX in my future. Or KPA V2, if one is ever produced. To me, the tube amp itch has been well-scratched and I feel like I've hit the end of that path because I have what I feel is the best for me - I've tried just about all of it and no one is really creating new tube circuits. I have what I like and I don't see anything 'new' on that horizon changing that. If you're looking for new ideas or sonic landscapes, digital is a lot more likely to provide that.
It's a great time to be a player. So many choices and for relatively little money. Guitars, amps, pedals, recording gear. If I had these options as a teen, I mighta made something of myself, I mighta been a contenda.
Well let's face it- solid state amps have come an awfully long way in general. A few years ago it was unimaginable for me to think I would be gigging with a solid state amp but lugging my Dr. Z out gig after gig was taking a real toll on me and I knew I needed to cut down size and weight of my gear. Modelers don't appeal to be because I don't play with effects at all, so the bells and whistles (literally!) simply aren't a selling point. I need a clean sound and reliability on jobs- period. But if you really like to experiment with different effects and tone combinations, a modeler is a cheap way to do that. Far cheaper than cycling through dozens of pedals looking for the holy grail.
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Post by highdeaf on Jul 12, 2021 15:53:44 GMT
To me, the last battlefield is the actual tone. Modelers/profilers have most of the advantages on their side, but whether 'the tone is there' is still hotly debated. Whether one says it is or isn't, I don't think anyone can deny digital stuff is getting better all the time. I can see how players who choose tone ultimately over all else can stay with their tube amps - I mean, it's worked for decades and will keep doing the job for that much longer. If it ain't broke .......
I didn't believe it for a long time. I was cautious and took some time to jump in (a good deal helped me take the leap). Modelers weren't going away. I had to try one. And it did take longer to get a good grip on it than I thought, so I'm glad I started when I did.
I'm not anti-tubes or anything. I still play my tube amps. At this point, I may sell one or two, but there's at least two (Mesa LSS and TA15) that aren't going anywhere - both discontinued now, and the LSS is mod'd quite a bit.
But I will also keep going down this digital path. There's quite possibly an Axe-FX in my future. Or KPA V2, if one is ever produced. To me, the tube amp itch has been well-scratched and I feel like I've hit the end of that path because I have what I feel is the best for me - I've tried just about all of it and no one is really creating new tube circuits. I have what I like and I don't see anything 'new' on that horizon changing that. If you're looking for new ideas or sonic landscapes, digital is a lot more likely to provide that.
It's a great time to be a player. So many choices and for relatively little money. Guitars, amps, pedals, recording gear. If I had these options as a teen, I mighta made something of myself, I mighta been a contenda.
Well let's face it- solid state amps have come an awfully long way in general. A few years ago it was unimaginable for me to think I would be gigging with a solid state amp but lugging my Dr. Z out gig after gig was taking a real toll on me and I knew I needed to cut down size and weight of my gear. Modelers don't appeal to be because I don't play with effects at all, so the bells and whistles (literally!) simply aren't a selling point. I need a clean sound and reliability on jobs- period. But if you really like to experiment with different effects and tone combinations, a modeler is a cheap way to do that. Far cheaper than cycling through dozens of pedals looking for the holy grail.
SS amps have come a long ways. I would have no problems gigging with a Quilter or Boss amp if I didn't have tube amps already. That TA-15 and a single 12 cab is a reasonably light amp that works everywhere I've tried it. I use a DRRI with an ABY box and a MIAB into the Normal channel (no pedal in the Vib channel for cleans) for gigs too. Reasonably light and quick to set up and tear down.
I also have 3 pedalboards depending on what I'm doing (gigging v jamming). So lots of pedals. But I sold off a whack of them a year after getting the Kemper. And haven't bought any since. The effects in the Kemper have a lot of editing control and I haven't run out of options there yet. I will play with the knobs and buttons before running to the store if I need a certain effect type.
My band is going to do Born on the Bayou when we get out again and it took me no time to dial in a really nice, authentic tremolo effect. Of note, I'm not much of a tremolo guy - I don't own a tremolo pedal and the only amp I have with that effect is the DRRI. And except for testing, I've never used it on that amp.
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Post by Die Bullen on Jul 12, 2021 21:52:24 GMT
Well let's face it- solid state amps have come an awfully long way in general. A few years ago it was unimaginable for me to think I would be gigging with a solid state amp but lugging my Dr. Z out gig after gig was taking a real toll on me and I knew I needed to cut down size and weight of my gear. Modelers don't appeal to be because I don't play with effects at all, so the bells and whistles (literally!) simply aren't a selling point. I need a clean sound and reliability on jobs- period. But if you really like to experiment with different effects and tone combinations, a modeler is a cheap way to do that. Far cheaper than cycling through dozens of pedals looking for the holy grail.
My band is going to do Born on the Bayou when we get out again and it took me no time to dial in a really nice, authentic tremolo effect. Of note, I'm not much of a tremolo guy - I don't own a tremolo pedal and the only amp I have with that effect is the DRRI. And except for testing, I've never used it on that amp.
Almost all my tube amps have onboard tremolo but I only turn it on occasionally to make sure it still works. It is a neat effect but nothing I play would ever use it. Great song, born on the bayou!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2021 23:57:30 GMT
The fender mustang gt series modelers are really user friendly. Right now I have the gt 200 and love it. It’s a great practice and jamming amp. The fender amp models are just incredible in my opinion. There are a lot of well done presets and I can generally get what I want out of it. I’m going to go to a more conventional setup for gigging so I’m starting to shop combo amps. I’ve never gigged a combo amp so this is new territory for me. The last combo amp I owned that wasn’t a modeler was a peavey classic vtx but that was many years ago. Ah the vtx- now that is a classic Peavey. Probably great for gigs but I imagine they are heavy. I wouldn't want to lug a 212 around anymore
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Post by infant on Jul 13, 2021 0:42:02 GMT
Ah the vtx- now that is a classic Peavey. Probably great for gigs but I imagine they are heavy. I wouldn't want to lug a 212 around anymore Exactly! This is what I’ve been doing for the last 5-7 years. I’ve also been trying to reduce our stage footprint but it’s gonna take some time.
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Post by Die Bullen on Jul 13, 2021 0:45:03 GMT
Exactly! This is what I’ve been doing for the last 5-7 years. I’ve also been trying to reduce our stage footprint but it’s gonna take some time. Ditto!
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Post by zontar on Jul 13, 2021 2:43:15 GMT
Ah the vtx- now that is a classic Peavey. Probably great for gigs but I imagine they are heavy. I wouldn't want to lug a 212 around anymore And nowhere does this affect me more than amps. I'm still okay with a 10 pound guitar--but not a 40+ pound amp.
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Post by infant on Jul 13, 2021 3:15:29 GMT
And nowhere does this affect me more than amps. I'm still okay with a 10 pound guitar--but not a 40+ pound amp. Nope, heavy guitars tend to stay home. My Fender Thinline and Gibson Melody Maker are my #1a and 1b guitars. The Thinline is just barely over 6lbs and the MM is about 6.5 lbs. All my other guitars are in the 9lb area and unless it’s a short gig, they stay at home. my Boss katana amp is 32 lbs and has been at most of my last gigs before things shut down.
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Post by zontar on Jul 13, 2021 3:24:59 GMT
And nowhere does this affect me more than amps. I'm still okay with a 10 pound guitar--but not a 40+ pound amp. Nope, heavy guitars tend to stay home. My Fender Thinline and Gibson Melody Maker are my #1a and 1b guitars. The Thinline is just barely over 6lbs and the MM is about 6.5 lbs. All my other guitars are in the 9lb area and unless it’s a short gig, they stay at home. my Boss katana amp is 32 lbs and has been at most of my last gigs before things shut down. Hey that's cool. a 10 pound guitar doesn't bother me --at least not yet--but carrying or moving a 40+ pound amp is something I should avoid. We're all at least a bit different--so there will be differences.
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Post by Colchar on Jul 13, 2021 4:02:38 GMT
Speaking of weight, this is the rig that I just put together:
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Post by infant on Jul 13, 2021 4:04:28 GMT
Nope, heavy guitars tend to stay home. My Fender Thinline and Gibson Melody Maker are my #1a and 1b guitars. The Thinline is just barely over 6lbs and the MM is about 6.5 lbs. All my other guitars are in the 9lb area and unless it’s a short gig, they stay at home. my Boss katana amp is 32 lbs and has been at most of my last gigs before things shut down. Hey that's cool. a 10 pound guitar doesn't bother me --at least not yet--but carrying or moving a 40+ pound amp is something I should avoid. We're all at least a bit different--so there will be differences. Actually, I’ve been finding that having a 9 pound guitar slung over my shoulder for a 3 to 4 hour gig wreaks havoc on my shoulder and my legs/ankles by the next morning. Even after playing a gig with my lighter guitars, my legs still bother me in the morning. I’ve thought about buying one of those padded “anti fatigue” mats to stand on when I gig. Any little bit helps.
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Post by zontar on Jul 13, 2021 4:13:19 GMT
Hey that's cool. a 10 pound guitar doesn't bother me --at least not yet--but carrying or moving a 40+ pound amp is something I should avoid. We're all at least a bit different--so there will be differences. Actually, I’ve been finding that having a 9 pound guitar slung over my shoulder for a 3 to 4 hour gig wreaks havoc on my shoulder and my legs/ankles by the next morning. Even after playing a gig with my lighter guitars, my legs still bother me in the morning. I’ve thought about buying one of those padded “anti fatigue” mats to stand on when I gig. Any little bit helps. Well we all have different bodies. They react differently to things--so we must do what we need to that way. And I get why some people would avoid certain guitars, just as I would avoid certain amps...
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Post by infant on Jul 13, 2021 4:21:27 GMT
Speaking of weight, this is the rig that I just put together: My 65 yr old back hurts just looking at that.
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Post by Colchar on Jul 13, 2021 4:30:42 GMT
Speaking of weight, this is the rig that I just put together: My 65 yr old back hurts just looking at that. The cab has wheels!
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Post by zontar on Jul 13, 2021 4:38:23 GMT
My 65 yr old back hurts just looking at that. The cab has wheels! It better--and no stairs... I've encountered heads that are heavier than I want to deal with. Maybe once I am able to have a better area for my gear I could consider a heavy amp that just stays where it is--or has wheels.
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Post by Colchar on Jul 13, 2021 4:43:04 GMT
It better--and no stairs... I've encountered heads that are heavier than I want to deal with. Maybe once I am able to have a better area for my gear I could consider a heavy amp that just stays where it is--or has wheels. While the cab does have wheels, they sit in one spot and do not move so other than bringing it inside, the wheels aren't even needed (I am actually considering taking them off).
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Post by zontar on Jul 13, 2021 4:45:33 GMT
It better--and no stairs... I've encountered heads that are heavier than I want to deal with. Maybe once I am able to have a better area for my gear I could consider a heavy amp that just stays where it is--or has wheels. While the cab does have wheels, they sit in one spot and do not move so other than bringing it inside, the wheels aren't even needed (I am actually considering taking them off). Well, yeah if you never need to move it --sure...
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Post by infant on Jul 13, 2021 11:36:08 GMT
My 65 yr old back hurts just looking at that. The cab has wheels! Well that’s all great until you have to lift it into your vehicle or the stage. I’ll stick to small combos at this stage in my life. 😎
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Post by Die Bullen on Jul 13, 2021 11:52:49 GMT
Nope, heavy guitars tend to stay home. My Fender Thinline and Gibson Melody Maker are my #1a and 1b guitars. The Thinline is just barely over 6lbs and the MM is about 6.5 lbs. All my other guitars are in the 9lb area and unless it’s a short gig, they stay at home. my Boss katana amp is 32 lbs and has been at most of my last gigs before things shut down. Hey that's cool. a 10 pound guitar doesn't bother me --at least not yet--but carrying or moving a 40+ pound amp is something I should avoid. We're all at least a bit different--so there will be differences. 10 pound guitar also doesn't especially bother me either- my Guild X-500 has got to be very close to that weight. But I'm done with the heavy amp in gigs game
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