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Post by Colchar on Jul 23, 2017 2:11:20 GMT
I had been acoustic shopping for a week or more and was ready to pull the trigger on a Seagull. I wanted an all solid wood guitar, but the Seagull models had wider necks which I couldn't play (too much shoulder which got in the way of my hand). Because of the wider neck, and my reluctance to go up to $899 (before tax) for a slimmer necked solid wood model, I was also looking at some mid to higher end laminate back and side acoustics. On the Canadian guitar forum our very own JDTO mentioned to me that he had just purchased a Yamaha LL16, which is a very nice solid wood acoustic. Since that also cost $899 I decided to look at the LL6, which is the exact same guitar except with laminate back and sides. It has rosewood back and sides, a rosewood bridge and fretboard, a solid Engelmann spruce top, Abalone inlay, and piezo pickup hidden away under the bridge. Compared to the Seagulls, and every other guitar I tried in its $699 price range, this Yamaha came out on top so I pulled the trigger today. I was surprised at how much I liked it because I had always had a stupid prejudice against Yamahas thanks to their lower end models. But this thing is in another league entirely and I couldn't be happier with the purchase. It came with a hard gig bag but I talked the store into keeping that, which they did and credited me $48 towards a deluxe acoustic case that was on sale for $79. So before taxes, the guitar and case only ran me $730. Here are some quick pics (I'll take better pics of the back tomorrow, these ones are ruined by the light and camera flash reflecting off of guitar and making it look like it is marked up):
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Post by Maxwell on Jul 23, 2017 3:02:32 GMT
Damn nice... I have never played a bad Yamaha anything, regardless of price... They don't seem to advertise like some companies.. I guess they don't have to... Their stuff sells itself...
Damn nice....
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Post by Colchar on Jul 23, 2017 3:11:53 GMT
My prejudice against them was completely unfounded and misguided.
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Post by Bill h on Jul 23, 2017 4:29:03 GMT
Can't go wrong with a Yamaha. I've owned a couple over the years. All I have now are a couple of fenders and a Martin, my wife has a yari Alvarez which is pretty nice. Anyhow, for the buck, I think you came out on top. Seagulls are nice guitars but a little pricey compared to others in that quality range. I don't know, maybe they thought the inlays were worth jacking the price a little. My mother in law owns a little music store in Appalachicola Florida, that's where I first ran into the seagulls a few years ago. Even then I thought they were nice guitars but found myself thinking that if I were going to spend that much money it would be on something else. Congrats on the new geeter. Those are awesome guitars.
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Post by Maxwell on Jul 23, 2017 15:20:21 GMT
Yamaha electrics, basses, keyboards, drums from hell, horns, etc., too...
They don't don't build bad nothing....
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Post by Colchar on Jul 23, 2017 15:55:17 GMT
I think part of the problem with Yamaha is that the company makes everything from motorcycles to musical instruments. Because of that some people (like me) get it into their heads that they are a jack of all trades, master of none. Then when it comes to guitars they have their low cost, entry level models which you see everywhere. That further reinforces the impression that they are just selling stuff, rather than making quality gear. The impression is wrong, but it certainly exists, and I am as guilty of it as anyone. Until recently I didn't even dismiss Yamaha guitars, I literally looked right past them as if they weren't even there. For me to have had that impression is stupid because I often point out to cork sniffers who yammer on about wood, tone, specific glues, etc. that Elton John has five $1 million dollar pianos. They are all unique in some way but none follow tradition. One would expect an older instrument like the piano to be more tradition bound than guitars, but his pianos do not fit that mold. For example, the piano he used at his Vegas residency shows was partially made of glass, had a screen in one side so that images could be projected during the show, and included a fish tank! He is one of the biggest artists in the world and he is fine with those things being in his instrument but bar band guitarists bang on and on about "their tone". Bringing this back to Yamaha - Elton's million dollar pianos are all made by Yamaha. So here is one of the biggest artists in the world, and he uses Yamaha instruments. I would often use him and his pianos to knock cork sniffers off of their pedestals, but at the exact same time I harboured my own prejudice against Yamaha guitars I am also a fan of Triumph and, although Rik Emmett is now using LPs more, he also still uses the Yamaha guitars that he used when Triumph were at their most popular (watch any video of theirs from the '80s and he will be playing a Yamaha). If Yamaha instruments are good enough for Elton John and Rik Emmett, then they are more than good enough for the likes of me.
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Post by Maxwell on Jul 24, 2017 3:28:08 GMT
I would freaking kill to have a Yamaha bass like the singer from Mr. Mister...
Don't like many green guitars but dayum, that is one killer bass....
Mondo badassery...
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Post by Maxwell on Jul 24, 2017 3:28:59 GMT
They are a pretty badass band live even though they were a bit poppy...
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Post by Colchar on Jul 24, 2017 6:24:33 GMT
The reptilian part of my brain was thinking today that maybe I should consider the all wood version of my Yamaha. I gave it some thought and managed to shut that part of my brain up when I considered the extra care that is needed for an all wood guitar and the extra $200 that it would cost.
And when I played my new Yammie later this evening, all of those thoughts went right out of my head. This thing is just great - it is loud as a canon, sounds beautiful (it has a very balanced sound and maintains note definition even under heavy strumming), is very responsive (I have never had an acoustic on which you could so easily alter the tone simply by using different picks), is very resonant (the amount of vibration you can feel through the neck surprised me at first), and plays like a dream.
I have never been able to play acoustics worth a shit but this one is a breeze to play. One of the reasons I wanted an acoustic was as a practice tool. If I could learn to play one of them properly, cleanly, and precisely then when I switched over to my Tele it should be a breeze to play. The problem is that this Yammie is so easy to play that it kind of defeats the purpose! It is by far the easiest to play acoustic I've ever experienced. Hell, it is easier to play than some electrics I've tried! And it hasn't even had its initial setup yet. My buddy was too busy to do it on Saturday so he told me to pop in later this week and he'd take care of it for me. Once that has been done it will probably play even better than it already does.
You don't get rid of a guitar like that - not even for an upgraded version of the same model - you just don't.
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Post by Bill h on Jul 24, 2017 15:49:15 GMT
I saw Triumph in the early 80's, 83 or 84. They were the definition of the term "power trio". Rik Emmett is an awesome guitar player. I saw them in anchorage of all places, back then we thought it was just awesome for a band to come up here and play a concert.
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Post by Colchar on Jul 24, 2017 17:19:02 GMT
Did Emmett wear his ridiculous pink overalls jumpsuit thingy when you saw him? Talk about a fashion crime!
Triumph were local for me. Their drummer, Gil Moore, established a studio at which they recorded and that studio is still going strong today, with a lot of gold, platinum, etc. records to its credit. It also houses an educational program for those who want to learn to be producers, sound engineers, etc. That studio is located about 20 mins from my place.
I just took a look at Rik Emmett's website. In the gear section it discusses his various Yamaha guitars, including some custom shop models, and I noticed that he uses three acoustics from the same 'L' series that mine comes from.
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Post by Bill h on Jul 24, 2017 23:44:46 GMT
Can't really remember what Emmett was wearing at the time, a little to much partying before and during the concert as I recall. I remember thinking that they sounded just like their record. Overall it was a good concert, their sound was awesome.
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Post by Snoop Droobie Doge Doge on Jul 26, 2017 8:31:27 GMT
I really haven't played any bad Yamahas myself. That one looks really nice, Colin. I need to get back into an acoustic. Haven't owned one for years. Borrowed a few in the time I've been without, but I haven't even touched an acoustic in at least two years.
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Post by Colchar on Jul 26, 2017 14:49:01 GMT
I really haven't played any bad Yamahas myself. That one looks really nice, Colin. I need to get back into an acoustic. Haven't owned one for years. Borrowed a few in the time I've been without, but I haven't even touched an acoustic in at least two years. Acoustics make you work harder so this was originally meant, at least in part, to be a practice tool. But it plays so damned easy that it negates its purpose as a practice tool.
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Post by sixstring on Aug 3, 2017 16:39:26 GMT
wait! take it back. it has a thumb print smudge on the back! totally unacceptable. that just ruins the tone forever...
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Post by Snoop Droobie Doge Doge on Aug 4, 2017 1:07:58 GMT
A good acoustic shouldn't be too hard to play... I mean what are we talking here? Cause I've had my hands on countless acoustics with strings a mile above the frets. It's no wonder kids give up guitar when they get handed unplayable guitars.
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Post by Bill h on Aug 4, 2017 3:39:44 GMT
A good acoustic shouldn't be too hard to play... I mean what are we talking here? Cause I've had my hands on countless acoustics with strings a mile above the frets. It's no wonder kids give up guitar when they get handed unplayable guitars. Great point, a lot of the cheaper acoustics have strings so high up you would need hydraulic fingers to fret a note. Impossible for a seasoned player let alone a beginner. At the same time there are cheap guitars with decent playability but beginners don't know any better. Making cheap guitars that are at the very least playable should be a no-brainer.......you would think so anyhow.
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Post by sixstring on Aug 4, 2017 12:58:08 GMT
agree mr Bill! years ago i went shopping for a 3/4 sized acoustic for a "wee lad". well i must have tried dozens of brands and almost all were absolute garbage. no way a youngster could fret notes or chords. bad set up, ragged frets, action way too high. just a waste of time. i finally found a 3/4 sized yamaha that was at least playable and had some musical tone. sounded more like a uke than a guitar, but the little guy still plays it although he's moved on to bigger and better now.
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Post by Snoop Droobie Doge Doge on Aug 8, 2017 2:23:09 GMT
I actually played bottom dollar Yamaha dreadnoughts my grade school owned for years, and they weren't the best players (but in the price range I'd call it good), but in terms of sound, as long as they had some good strings on them they sounded really good. These were probably made out of something just a step above plywood or cardboard lol.
I actually don't regret having bought into electrics before I even had a clue what I was doing as a player, because at least then I could get a cheap POS guitar and set it up myself and make it play halfway decent. IMO there's no real reason for someone to start with an acoustic, let alone "master" it... Which is an idea that bothers me. Because no one, even some people that play apparently, realizes THEY'RE THE SAME FUCKING INSTRUMENT. If I had to do it all over again I would've just bought an electric first. When I didn't have to fight as much to learn the guitar, I started getting a lot better.
As an aside: if anyone ever asks me again whether I play "electric or acoustic" I'm going to get right in that persons face and shout him or her down just for knowing absolutely nothing about anything. It's a stylistic choice. My style is fuck you.
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Post by Bill h on Aug 8, 2017 4:08:58 GMT
I started with electrics long before I ever picked up an acoustic. I agree, to say that you need to learn on an acoustic is just as stupid as it sounds.
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Post by Colchar on Aug 8, 2017 15:38:58 GMT
I don't see any necessity in learning on an acoustic, but I do think that they can be used as a practice tool. Until this Yamaha, I found them harder to play than electrics so learning to play one is good training - get decent with the acoustic and the electric is that much easier. Sort of like runners who train wearing weights and can then run easier when the weights are off.
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Post by Snoop Droobie Doge Doge on Aug 9, 2017 5:02:32 GMT
I agree 100%. In fact, my hearing is effed at this point, that as loud as my semi hollows are unplugged, I can't really play them unplugged on my couch and actually hear everything I play anymore. I used to sit on my bed and play my Les Paul unplugged all the time. So I would argue that having an acoustic just for a couch/bed/campfire guitar is a must.
That being said, you still can't learn to be a versatile rock lead guiarist on an acoustic unless it plays like butter. You can learn other things playing acoustic. But that one is off limits. TBH you can do a lot of damage to your hands, the fretting hand in particular, trying to beat a guitar that's too hard to play for the style of music you're playing. Like, I'm not gonna play crazy shreddy stuff on a guitar with .11s in E standard just because my hands are gonna start cramping after 30 minutes of going crazy. If you're in it for the long haul you can't be fucking up your hands. You just can't. Someone gave me shit for not counting change at a POS job as "fast as everyone else there," and I flatly said I'm not gonna mess my hands up for that. I don't feel like I said the wrong thing.
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Post by Bill h on Aug 9, 2017 14:53:45 GMT
I don't see any necessity in learning on an acoustic, but I do think that they can be used as a practice tool. Until this Yamaha, I found them harder to play than electrics so learning to play one is good training - get decent with the acoustic and the electric is that much easier. Sort of like runners who train wearing weights and can then run easier when the weights are off. I think in the early stages, I mean the very beginning of the learning process, it's better for the new player to learn on the electric just until a little dexterity is gained with some beginning chords and techniques. Then, I agree, start practicing on an acoustic to gain some strength, like you said, good training.
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