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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2015 16:02:37 GMT
I studied modes, well, no, i learned them. In the three note per string fashion in all 8 positions, plus repeats up the neck as far as i could go. other than blending them with the pentatonic or using them to know one's proper scale.... i have no idea what they are actually for.
a gentlmen named scott szeryk did a workshop on how to use htem, but i didn't get it. he got several feelings out of them according to him, but everythign he played sounded like it felt the same to me. So i don't get modes
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Post by Catfish on Nov 9, 2015 19:28:37 GMT
My view is that modes are a bit silly, with the exception of a couple. You probably noticed while learning them that they're almost all the Major scale with the root in a different place.
If a particular guitarist ends up playing in a mode, it's usually because the melody they're going for just happens to fit into one.
When I'm composing, and exploring melodic options, I use the Major, Relative Minor, Major Pentatonic, Minor Pentatonic, and Chromatic scales pretty much exclusively.
The last one listed includes all the notes, so it encompasses every possible mode by itself.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2015 19:45:09 GMT
ya i noticed that the modes as i was taught them were all major scale positions with different degree of root. now i get that each note on a scale gives a different feeling depending on teh backing chord, the progression, etc. i could never get the hang of using them cause well, a C major scale is a C major scale regardless of what degree you start your riff on lol. at least to my way of thinking. I want with the major scale, minor pentatonic and blues and chromatic scales for my guitar playing.... however... i do need to learn the minor and relative minor... i haven't done scales in a long while. it will be a whole new experience all over again lol
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Post by Catfish on Nov 9, 2015 22:25:32 GMT
If you know how to play CMAJ,simply start and stop on A instead of C, and voila! Amin. It's one of the modes.  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2015 22:50:34 GMT
Aeolian (sp?)mode if i remember correctly, or the relative minor mode
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Post by Catfish on Nov 9, 2015 23:05:49 GMT
Aeolian (sp?)mode if i remember correctly, or the relative minor mode Relative minor, yes. |
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Post by yettoblaster on Nov 11, 2015 14:17:03 GMT
Modes, and the harmonized seventh scale (using chords), really unlocked the neck for me and taught me how music is put together.
It's like I play in two distinct approaches now: my old bar band pentatonics ( with enough notes added that they become diatonic): and the "new" way I learned to associate certain scales (or modes) with certain chords in the sequence of the key center.
Now I can improvise and just forget all that stuff! I know where the happy hunting ground is for notes in any key, and have alternatives so I don't have to keep track of "avoid" notes.
I don't even think of that stuff anymore. It's all ingrained. I can just go for it, and self-edit so it keeps me interested.
It hardly matters to me now what tune my bandmates want to play. It's all just sound, so I'm free to paint myself into a corner by starting on any note, just to see how I'll get out of it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2015 15:39:08 GMT
LOL i like the way you put that last bit  |
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tommo
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Post by tommo on Nov 14, 2015 12:10:13 GMT
Don't get a headache over them - definitely not in "learning theory" terms. You may think of them as a series of fixed intervals - each series differing a bit from the other. Major is major - it's major (ionian mode if you need to know)...  Where it may get interesting is when you play a song in minor - is it natural (relative) minor (mode: aeolian) which will have a flat 6th degree or is it dorian which will have a major sixth degree - bit of a different flavour in your lines. As long as you stay on the tonic chord or a chord that is a scale chord in both scales you can switch from one to the other for more flavour. Also when writing songs and looking for chord progressions you can use what's called "modal interchange" - the different scale chords from different scales starting from the same note - e.g. combining chords from Cminor and Cmajor - you've probably done so already without knowing it - you just did because thsoe chords sounded good with each other.... Just one more mode that may be useful in musical situations where a bluesy sound is called for is the "mixolydian" - which you can think of as just a major scle with a b7th degree and forget about "mixolydian".  |
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Post by Schidney on Nov 20, 2015 19:42:35 GMT
Aeolian (sp?)mode if i remember correctly, or the relative minor mode Relative minor, yes. OOOFFF,  |
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roberteaux
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Post by roberteaux on Dec 12, 2015 7:34:29 GMT
Don't get a headache over them - definitely not in "learning theory" terms. You may think of them as a series of fixed intervals - each series differing a bit from the other. Major is major - it's major (ionian mode if you need to know)... Where it may get interesting is when you play a song in minor - is it natural (relative) minor (mode: aeolian) which will have a flat 6th degree or is it dorian which will have a major sixth degree - bit of a different flavour in your lines. As long as you stay on the tonic chord or a chord that is a scale chord in both scales you can switch from one to the other for more flavour. Also when writing songs and looking for chord progressions you can use what's called "modal interchange" - the different scale chords from different scales starting from the same note - e.g. combining chords from Cminor and Cmajor - you've probably done so already without knowing it - you just did because thsoe chords sounded good with each other.... Just one more mode that may be useful in musical situations where a bluesy sound is called for is the "mixolydian" - which you can think of as just a major scle with a b7th degree and forget about "mixolydian". One of these days, I might actually know what you just said up there! Actually, I pretty much got it, though I'm in the same boat as Lyrica... I know what some of the scales are, but no clue how to use them or even why. Somebody told me that it's very useful for songwriters to know scales, but I don't write songs at all. I read an interview with Alex Lifeson one time, where the subject of discussion was the song "Free Will". Apparently the chorus of that one corresponds to some scale that is used when you want to create a slightly mysterious feeling or something like that, and the interviewer praised his brilliance for what he did with that song. Lifeson was surprised, and admitted that he knew nothing at all about scales. Yes, he'd heard the names and knew what the major, minor, and chromatic scales were... but he never was taught to use them or to really pay much attention to that sort of thing. The interviewer was nonplussed. He asked how Lifeson came up with something that sounded so recondite, and so quasi-religious. Lifeson's answer was that he simply envisioned the feeling of the song and the subject of the lyrics, and came up with something he found suitable as a match. Man, I dunno about any of that stuff. I couldn't come up with a progression like that one in a million years no matter what. --Rob |
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Post by thumpalumpacus on Dec 16, 2015 17:06:59 GMT
It's all about resolution, to me. Knowing your modes is almost useless unless you know how to signal the listener your tonal center -- unless, of course, you want said listener unsettled. I do look on them both like Lefty does (simply a major scale with a different starting point) and like Tommo (simply modifying a scale and key already in place). How I approach them doesn't really matter any more, though -- I go more with trying to hear the intervals I'm imagining, getting them onto the fretboard, and not worrying about what it's called. For me, I'm doing my damnedest not to think at all while I'm playing, unless I'm formally practicing.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2015 18:37:37 GMT
It's all about resolution, to me. Knowing your modes is almost useless unless you know how to signal the listener your tonal center -- unless, of course, you want said listener unsettled. I do look on them both like Lefty does (simply a major scale with a different starting point) and like Tommo (simply modifying a scale and key already in place). How I approach them doesn't really matter any more, though -- I go more with trying to hear the intervals I'm imagining, getting them onto the fretboard, and not worrying about what it's called. For me, I'm doing my damnedest not to think at all while I'm playing, unless I'm formally practicing. almost every freaking time i get in trouble while playing it's cause i was thinking. and a lot of the time i'm thinking about shit that has nothing to do with the music LOL. or one of the guys will play something fantastic and I'll be like "holy shit was that good, he's really been practicing. this is great!" and then miss my vocal cue for the next verse LOL. i have a bit of adhd or something. I tend to have many things going on in my head at once. It makes it very hard to "be in the moment" especially at practice. I think it happens less when performing for a good crowd, but i haven't got a lot of experience as front person yet so we'll have to see if that thought carries water |
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Post by Die Bullen on Dec 2, 2020 18:50:16 GMT
I’m resurrecting a zombie thread here but I know you guys are trying to build content so please forgive me if I am breaking the rules.
For many years I was in the camp of not really understanding scale/ chord theory and modes until I started learning the trumpet around 13 years ago and then playing jazz.
Once you cross over into the “dark side” of band instruments your perspective on music changes completely as you are forced to learn to read the actual notes. Then you are eventually forced to play and improvise over chord changes that aren’t your standard I IV V. One day, you step into a jam session with horn in hand with drummers who can’t keep time and guitar players who don’t really understand that the horn player doesn’t use the same notes when improvising over Emaj vs Em7 vs E7, etc.
That guy who doesn’t know that the half beat he leaves out of every measure or adds something extra is absolutely wreaking havoc with the horns who are attempting to playing in 8 and 16 bar phrases.
Believe me I am no expert in theory and certainly don’t consider myself an elite musician. If you play 3 chord Montys with your buddies, modes probably don’t make a difference. However if you are playing Broadway musical numbers with minor 7th chords all over the place with horns, it makes a heck of a lot of difference once you start improvising. Likewise If you are creating church descants over a choir you had better know what chords are being played and how modes correspond to those chords.
Although that said, some knowledge of modes still wouldn’t hurt that 3 Chord Monty player…
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Post by johnreardon on Dec 2, 2020 21:10:27 GMT
Never been interested in learning music or about 'technical' about playing guitar. Always preferred to just play by my ear. If it sounds nice, then great. If it doesn't it's jazz
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Post by Die Bullen on Dec 2, 2020 21:31:14 GMT
Never been interested in learning music or about 'technical' about playing guitar. Always preferred to just play by my ear. Nothing wrong with that! Where our playing takes us determines very different levels of needs... |
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Post by zontar on Dec 5, 2020 10:15:03 GMT
Even if you don't really need them, it doesn't hurt to learn some different stuff.
And then the idea is to learn the stuff & then stop thinking about it & just play.
Muscle memory & stuff like that takes over.
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Post by Die Bullen on Dec 6, 2020 15:47:07 GMT
Even if you don't really need them, it doesn't hurt to learn some different stuff. And then the idea is to learn the stuff & then stop thinking about it & just play. Muscle memory & stuff like that takes over. Exactly, knowing something about music theory will never hurt your playing. Modes aren't even that difficult- if one can play a two octave major scale, you can already play all the modes... For example a Dorian (minor 7th) mode is only a C major scale that starts on D (i.e. D,E,F,G,A,B,C,D). It isn't any harder than that |
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Post by zontar on Dec 7, 2020 5:35:48 GMT
But knowledge scares some people--as well as effort
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