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Post by spellcaster on Jan 26, 2022 4:03:28 GMT
I spent to today going down the speaker rabbit-hole. I've always had a real liking for the Lansing speakers...Both JBL and Altec. My previous systems were two D130-F 15" speakers for guitar and two K140 15" speakers for bass. Both those speaker systems are gone now, and I confess to having a certain amount of seller's remorse about it. Nothing I've heard since compares to what I had.
I currently have a vented enclosure with a 15" Altec Lansing 418. I acquired it for my bass rig, but realized belatedly that it doesn't have much in common sonically with the 15" 421, which is actually the bass version. So, I'm using that 418 box with my Twin Reverb for guitar. It's not bad, although it's sonically a shadow of the old JBL 2x15" D130F speakers I used to use.
I just came across a guitar amplifier which has had a speaker upgrade to a 15" JBL K130. The amp itself is interesting...a Barcus Berry 1715 solid state 160 watt guitar amp, and it's fairly cheap for a vintage amp - 300.00. I really don't need another guitar amp, particularly a high-powered one, but I wondered if I should be looking at it with the idea of swapping the JBL speaker into the cabinet for my Twin Reverb. From what I've been able to discern so far, the JBL K series speakers are upgrade versions of the old D series speakers, handling 160 watts instead of the 60 watters that you'd find in the old Fender Dual Showman amps. So I'm on the fence about it.....
Also, l've been lusting after an Altec Lansing 2 x 15" 421 cabinet that's for sale in the classifieds. The seller's down to 390.00, which seems to be slightly less than the raw drivers are worth. I have no doubt that this Altec cabinet would be a big upgrade from the Ampeg 2 x 10" PortaFlex box I'm currently using.
Anybody here on the forum have any experience with either JBL or Altec Lansing speakers that can offer an opinion on whether either of these deals is worthwhile?
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Post by Die Bullen on Jan 26, 2022 12:28:31 GMT
I spent to today going down the speaker rabbit-hole. I've always had a real liking for the Lansing speakers...Both JBL and Altec. My previous systems were two D130-F 15" speakers for guitar and two K140 15" speakers for bass. Both those speaker systems are gone now, and I confess to having a certain amount of seller's remorse about it. Nothing I've heard since compares to what I had.
I currently have a vented enclosure with a 15" Altec Lansing 418. I acquired it for my bass rig, but realized belatedly that it doesn't have much in common sonically with the 15" 421, which is actually the bass version. So, I'm using that 418 box with my Twin Reverb for guitar. It's not bad, although it's sonically a shadow of the old JBL 2x15" D130F speakers I used to use.
I just came across a guitar amplifier which has had a speaker upgrade to a 15" JBL K130. The amp itself is interesting...a Barcus Berry 1715 solid state 160 watt guitar amp, and it's fairly cheap for a vintage amp - 300.00. I really don't need another guitar amp, particularly a high-powered one, but I wondered if I should be looking at it with the idea of swapping the JBL speaker into the cabinet for my Twin Reverb. From what I've been able to discern so far, the JBL K series speakers are upgrade versions of the old D series speakers, handling 160 watts instead of the 60 watters that you'd find in the old Fender Dual Showman amps. So I'm on the fence about it.....
Also, l've been lusting after an Altec Lansing 2 x 15" 421 cabinet that's for sale in the classifieds. The seller's down to 390.00, which seems to be slightly less than the raw drivers are worth. I have no doubt that this Altec cabinet would be a big upgrade from the Ampeg 2 x 10" PortaFlex box I'm currently using.
Anybody here on the forum have any experience with either JBL or Altec Lansing speakers that can offer an opinion on whether either of these deals is worthwhile?
I can't advise you on the value of used speakers but my gut tells me that is a Altec 2x15 is what you really want, that is what you should get. The only issue I see is what I asked elsewhere- can you actually move that 2x15 cab so it actually gets play?
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Post by johnreardon on Jan 26, 2022 12:58:01 GMT
I spent to today going down the speaker rabbit-hole. I've always had a real liking for the Lansing speakers...Both JBL and Altec. My previous systems were two D130-F 15" speakers for guitar and two K140 15" speakers for bass. Both those speaker systems are gone now, and I confess to having a certain amount of seller's remorse about it. Nothing I've heard since compares to what I had.
I currently have a vented enclosure with a 15" Altec Lansing 418. I acquired it for my bass rig, but realized belatedly that it doesn't have much in common sonically with the 15" 421, which is actually the bass version. So, I'm using that 418 box with my Twin Reverb for guitar. It's not bad, although it's sonically a shadow of the old JBL 2x15" D130F speakers I used to use.
I just came across a guitar amplifier which has had a speaker upgrade to a 15" JBL K130. The amp itself is interesting...a Barcus Berry 1715 solid state 160 watt guitar amp, and it's fairly cheap for a vintage amp - 300.00. I really don't need another guitar amp, particularly a high-powered one, but I wondered if I should be looking at it with the idea of swapping the JBL speaker into the cabinet for my Twin Reverb. From what I've been able to discern so far, the JBL K series speakers are upgrade versions of the old D series speakers, handling 160 watts instead of the 60 watters that you'd find in the old Fender Dual Showman amps. So I'm on the fence about it.....
Also, l've been lusting after an Altec Lansing 2 x 15" 421 cabinet that's for sale in the classifieds. The seller's down to 390.00, which seems to be slightly less than the raw drivers are worth. I have no doubt that this Altec cabinet would be a big upgrade from the Ampeg 2 x 10" PortaFlex box I'm currently using.
Anybody here on the forum have any experience with either JBL or Altec Lansing speakers that can offer an opinion on whether either of these deals is worthwhile?
I can't advise you on the value of used speakers but my gut tells me that is a Altec 2x15 is what you really want, that is what you should get. The only issue I see is what I asked elsewhere- can you actually move that 2x15 cab so it actually gets play?Good point. 15s are heavy and with none of us getting any younger, it makes sense to look at something smaller. I came across bass players these days with combos smaller and lighter than the stuff I play guitar through. They sound good as well.
However, if you like it then go for it
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Post by spellcaster on Jan 26, 2022 13:34:34 GMT
I tried going the lighter gear route a while back. I joined a trio three years ago and at the time I was using the 2 x 15" JBL box with no easy means of carting it around. I ended up going to Long & McQuade and renting a new Traynor cabinet with one of their Neodymium 15" drivers. It was relatively easy to pack around....only 46 lb. Problem was, from the moment I started using it, I was getting complaints from the band that they couldn't hear me. I tried everything....stopped using the Hofner bass, and instead used my full-size Telecaster bass, thinking it was the instrument that was the issue...and then stopped using my Fender Rumble 150 head and replaced it with my Twin Reverb head...but the band complained that my bass was just disappearing in the mix. I had someone with a full-size truck move my 2 x 15" JBL cabinet to our practice location, and immediately, the difference was really apparent - The bass just jumped out at you. So, I've kinda lost any faith in the neodymium speakers...They just seem to have a meek, non-aggressive quality that just sucks the life out of the sound. I'm of the opinion that what I really want is a single 15" JBL K140 or 15" Altec Lansing 421 driver. It's a bit like the hot rodder's adage that "There's no substitute for the power of more cubic inches". I just wish the speakers that do what I want didn't come in a cast frame that weighs 25 lb.
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Post by Die Bullen on Jan 26, 2022 14:11:45 GMT
I tried going the lighter gear route a while back. I joined a trio three years ago and at the time I was using the 2 x 15" JBL box with no easy means of carting it around. I ended up going to Long & McQuade and renting a new Traynor cabinet with one of their Neodymium 15" drivers. It was relatively easy to pack around....only 46 lb. Problem was, from the moment I started using it, I was getting complaints from the band that they couldn't hear me. I tried everything....stopped using the Hofner bass, and instead used my full-size Telecaster bass, thinking it was the instrument that was the issue...and then stopped using my Fender Rumble 150 head and replaced it with my Twin Reverb head...but the band complained that my bass was just disappearing in the mix. I had someone with a full-size truck move my 2 x 15" JBL cabinet to our practice location, and immediately, the difference was really apparent - The bass just jumped out at you. So, I've kinda lost any faith in the neodymium speakers...They just seem to have a meek, non-aggressive quality that just sucks the life out of the sound. I'm of the opinion that what I really want is a single 15" JBL K140 or 15" Altec Lansing 421 driver. It's a bit like the hot rodder's adage that "There's no substitute for the power of more cubic inches". I just wish the speakers that do what I want didn't come in a cast frame that weighs 25 lb.Well that's always going to be the issue with 15's. Big and heavy. There's always going to be that age old balance between what you want and what you need. I have a few amps that are so heavy that I can't really move them so they are relegated to at-home play. Imagine a band complaining that one of the players isn't LOUD ENOUGH???
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Post by highdeaf on Jan 27, 2022 18:58:18 GMT
I tried going the lighter gear route a while back. I joined a trio three years ago and at the time I was using the 2 x 15" JBL box with no easy means of carting it around. I ended up going to Long & McQuade and renting a new Traynor cabinet with one of their Neodymium 15" drivers. It was relatively easy to pack around....only 46 lb. Problem was, from the moment I started using it, I was getting complaints from the band that they couldn't hear me. I tried everything....stopped using the Hofner bass, and instead used my full-size Telecaster bass, thinking it was the instrument that was the issue...and then stopped using my Fender Rumble 150 head and replaced it with my Twin Reverb head...but the band complained that my bass was just disappearing in the mix. I had someone with a full-size truck move my 2 x 15" JBL cabinet to our practice location, and immediately, the difference was really apparent - The bass just jumped out at you. So, I've kinda lost any faith in the neodymium speakers...They just seem to have a meek, non-aggressive quality that just sucks the life out of the sound. I'm of the opinion that what I really want is a single 15" JBL K140 or 15" Altec Lansing 421 driver. It's a bit like the hot rodder's adage that "There's no substitute for the power of more cubic inches". I just wish the speakers that do what I want didn't come in a cast frame that weighs 25 lb.
If you were comparing a 1X15 Neodymium with a 2X15 JBL or Altec, I think blaming the type of speaker may not be fully accurate. It might have been more to do with the configuration than the magnet composition. Trying a 2X15 Neodymium cab may be a happy medium for you - good sound and relatively light weight.
Neodymium has made a lot of headway in the bass world. Alas, us guitar players are shackled by our own old-school preconceptions. I'm interested in Neodymium guitar speakers but I don't know anyone who has one, don't hear or read a lot of press on them and it's too expensive to take a flyer on one. So I stay with the heavy old formulas.
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Post by spellcaster on Jan 28, 2022 0:49:59 GMT
I'm not sure a 2 x 15" Neodymium cabinet is a practical idea for me, assuming such a thing exists....The size would be one factor, plus if a single neodymium 15" cabinet is 46 lb, it's reasonable to think a 2 x 15" version would be most of 100 lb. So I can't see that happening.
I just found a guy advertising a single JBL 15" D140F driver that he'll swap for the right 2 x 10" cabinet. I messaged him and offered him my Ampeg Portaflex cabinet and cover for his JBL driver and 200.00, or his JBL straight across for my cast frame Altec Lansing 418. Not sure it'll fly but I thought it was worth trying.
By the way, I know 12" neodymium guitar speakers exist. Can't remember any specifics, but I know I've seen a forum post somewhere from a guy who has two 12" neodymiums in a Twin Reverb combo. Something makes me think they might have been Jensens.
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Post by highdeaf on Jan 28, 2022 15:51:45 GMT
I'm not sure a 2 x 15" Neodymium cabinet is a practical idea for me, assuming such a thing exists....The size would be one factor, plus if a single neodymium 15" cabinet is 46 lb, it's reasonable to think a 2 x 15" version would be most of 100 lb. So I can't see that happening. I just found a guy advertising a single JBL 15" D140F driver that he'll swap for the right 2 x 10" cabinet. I messaged him and offered him my Ampeg Portaflex cabinet and cover for his JBL driver and 200.00, or his JBL straight across for my cast frame Altec Lansing 418. Not sure it'll fly but I thought it was worth trying. By the way, I know 12" neodymium guitar speakers exist. Can't remember any specifics, but I know I've seen a forum post somewhere from a guy who has two 12" neodymiums in a Twin Reverb combo. Something makes me think they might have been Jensens.
All I was saying is the 2 driver configuration might overrule the type of magnet the drivers have, as far as you getting buried in the mix. Perhaps 2 separate 1X15 Neodymium cabs would work? I think that's what you were considering with 'heavy magnet' speakers, 2 separate 1X15s.
And yes, absolutely, 12" neodymium guitar speakers exist. Eminence and Celestion make them, as well many other manufacturers. But I don't personally know anyone that has one, I don't think my local L&M stocks any. They are just kinda rare and exotic at this point in time - so I'd probably have to buy one to try it out. I like the idea of reduced weight but I've gotten used to 1X12 cabs and they are still manageable. If I absolutely had to have a 412, I guess I'd be A LOT more interested in neodymium.
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Post by zontar on Jan 29, 2022 22:27:29 GMT
I've never really paid a lot of attention to speakers--if ti sounds good--cool.
For my range Micro Dark head I currently use an old Fender G-Dec cab--the amp guts ar gone--it's just the cab & speaker--and I have a cable that connects the amp to the speaker It's an unranked speaker. I got that cab, with a dual footswitch & a small Fender sign for real cheap--and I had no idea if the speaker worked. I figured if I didn't like the speaker I'd buy a new one--and replace it--but even if it's a cheap speaker, I love how it sounds--so that's all okay for me for now.
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Post by spellcaster on Feb 8, 2022 18:38:59 GMT
I finally found what I was looking for. I just bought a vintage Gibson cabinet with a 15" Eminence bass speaker, 98 dB, alnico magnet, 2 1/2" voice coil, rated 100 watts RMS. This showed up last night on the Used Cowichan classifieds and I was there first thing this morning to buy it for 250.00 including tax. I think this, stacked with my Ampeg 2 x 10" PortaFlex cabinet, will give me back the deep bottom end I've been missing.
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Post by allthumbs56 on Feb 9, 2022 14:55:29 GMT
That Gibson is a classic! Hope it does the job.
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Post by Die Bullen on Feb 9, 2022 22:20:06 GMT
I finally found what I was looking for. I just bought a vintage Gibson cabinet with a 15" Eminence bass speaker, 98 dB, alnico magnet, 2 1/2" voice coil, rated 100 watts RMS. This showed up last night on the Used Cowichan classifieds and I was there first thing this morning to buy it for 250.00 including tax. I think this, stacked with my Ampeg 2 x 10" PortaFlex cabinet, will give me back the deep bottom end I've been missing.
Congrats on the purchase!
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Post by spellcaster on Feb 10, 2022 0:26:52 GMT
Thanks, dB. I'm feeling really gratified that I've been able to address my want for more deep bass than the 10" Eminences would provide, and the fact that I solved the basic issue within a budget I could afford....Basically, the money I made selling that Big Muff pedal was enough to buy the Gibson box. I'm throwing in a bit more money to do some cosmetic upgrades that are just a want, but not a need. I found a new reproduction Gibson amp badge on eBay that I've ordered, and will receive in the first week of March. It was, in my opinion, a stupid amount of money...About 65.00 by the time I paid the eBay Global shipping charge. I've found that small stuff like this is generally really over-priced. (I think I paid about 35.00 last year for a small metal badge for my Altec Lansing cabinet too). Not much a guy can do except bend over and pay it...It's not like it's something you can buy at Walmart...
I ended up tearing my equipment stack apart today to add the Gibson box, but there were some hiccups - When I first plugged it into my Rumble amp, there was no sound. I was a bit surprised because you'd have to assume that a music store taking something in on trade would test it to be sure it worked. However, we are talking about the local music store yokels, so who knows. I'd seen pictures of the inside of the box they took for the ad, so it appeared to have been wired. Anyway, I tore it all apart again, took the back off the box, and found that the badly oxidized speaker wire had just been roughly twisted through the speaker terminals...not soldered...and obviously when the guy in the store took the pictures, he'd managed to pull one of the wires off the speaker.
I got out my soldering station and prepared to cut off the oxidized portion of the wire and properly solder it, but my Weller soldering station appears to have bit the dust. I ended up walking to the nearest auto supply store and picking up some fresh wire and some crimp-on spade terminals. Couldn't believe it was almost 12.00 when I'm sure I threw equivalent stuff away when I moved last year. Anyway, got the driver wired, tested it, and it works. I'm still going to have pull it apart again though....there are three screws holding one side of the 15" speaker to the baffleboard, plus there were only three 2" robertson screws holding the back on the cabinet. So, I'll have tp make another trip to Home Depot for 1" mounting screws for the speaker, and some fresh countersunk chrome Philips screws and buttercup washers to screw the back on the cabinet properly. It's a good thing I got a deal on the cabinet from the music store because it's turned out to be a bit of a kit that I've had to dick around with. I may look for some proper yellow acoustic fiberglass baffling to put inside the box....Right now, it's lined with 3/8" high density carpet underlayment.
The good news is that I'm going to end up with what I wanted, and I'm happy that the efficiency of the Gibson box is quite well-balanced with the Ampeg PortaFlex, so it'll make a good sounding system when it's done.
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Post by Die Bullen on Feb 10, 2022 2:32:33 GMT
Thanks, dB. I'm feeling really gratified that I've been able to address my want for more deep bass than the 10" Eminences would provide, and the fact that I solved the basic issue within a budget I could afford....Basically, the money I made selling that Big Muff pedal was enough to buy the Gibson box. I'm throwing in a bit more money to do some cosmetic upgrades that are just a want, but not a need. I found a new reproduction Gibson amp badge on eBay that I've ordered, and will receive in the first week of March. It was, in my opinion, a stupid amount of money...About 65.00 by the time I paid the eBay Global shipping charge. I've found that small stuff like this is generally really over-priced. (I think I paid about 35.00 last year for a small metal badge for my Altec Lansing cabinet too). Not much a guy can do except bend over and pay it...It's not like it's something you can buy at Walmart... I ended up tearing my equipment stack apart today to add the Gibson box, but there were some hiccups - When I first plugged it into my Rumble amp, there was no sound. I was a bit surprised because you'd have to assume that a music store taking something in on trade would test it to be sure it worked. However, we are talking about the local music store yokels, so who knows. I'd seen pictures of the inside of the box they took for the ad, so it appeared to have been wired. Anyway, I tore it all apart again, took the back off the box, and found that the badly oxidized speaker wire had just been roughly twisted through the speaker terminals...not soldered...and obviously when the guy in the store took the pictures, he'd managed to pull one of the wires off the speaker. I got out my soldering station and prepared to cut off the oxidized portion of the wire and properly solder it, but my Weller soldering station appears to have bit the dust. I ended up walking to the nearest auto supply store and picking up some fresh wire and some crimp-on spade terminals. Couldn't believe it was almost 12.00 when I'm sure I threw equivalent stuff away when I moved last year. Anyway, got the driver wired, tested it, and it works. I'm still going to have pull it apart again though....there are three screws holding one side of the 15" speaker to the baffleboard, plus there were only three 2" robertson screws holding the back on the cabinet. So, I'll have tp make another trip to Home Depot for 1" mounting screws for the speaker, and some fresh countersunk chrome Philips screws and buttercup washers to screw the back on the cabinet properly. It's a good thing I got a deal on the cabinet from the music store because it's turned out to be a bit of a kit that I've had to dick around with. I may look for some proper yellow acoustic fiberglass baffling to put inside the box....Right now, it's lined with 3/8" high density carpet underlayment. The good news is that I'm going to end up with what I wanted, and I'm happy that the efficiency of the Gibson box is quite well-balanced with the Ampeg PortaFlex, so it'll make a good sounding system when it's done. Hey a little inconvenience for you but a small project that should be fairly easy to compete. Stinks about the price of the badge however, but that's vanity for you
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Post by zontar on Feb 10, 2022 2:33:29 GMT
And here I thought you found it in an actual rabbit hole.
Enjoy!
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Post by spellcaster on Feb 10, 2022 2:58:58 GMT
And here I thought you found it in an actual rabbit hole.
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Post by spellcaster on Feb 10, 2022 4:55:06 GMT
I don't normally bitch about what things cost unless I think it's really out of line. (Such as a 2 1/4" x 4" piece of plastic from eBay that lands at my door at about 65.00). However, I'm just about done with Home Depot after this.....I think they should call themselves Home Run when they charge like this. I bought five packages of 1 1/4" screws (each package @ 2.97 had 4 screws), one package of 1" screws (20 pieces @2.97), and 18 buttercup washers (@.20). The bill.......23.99. I was thunderstruck. Twenty four bucks for a few screws and washers? It'll be a long, long time before I go to Home Depot (Home Run) again. Friggin' ridiculous.
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Post by Die Bullen on Feb 10, 2022 13:05:18 GMT
I don't normally bitch about what things cost unless I think it's really out of line. (Such as a 2 1/4" x 4" piece of plastic from eBay that lands at my door at about 65.00). However, I'm just about done with Home Depot after this.....I think they should call themselves Home Run when they charge like this. I bought five packages of 1 1/4" screws (each package @ 2.97 had 4 screws), one package of 1" screws (20 pieces @2.97), and 18 buttercup washers (@.20). The bill.......23.99. I was thunderstruck. Twenty four bucks for a few screws and washers? It'll be a long, long time before I go to Home Depot (Home Run) again. Friggin' ridiculous.
<button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Delete</button>
Yeah for stuff like small hardware it is often better to go to a local hardware store than the big chains...
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Post by highdeaf on Feb 10, 2022 15:30:04 GMT
I don't normally bitch about what things cost unless I think it's really out of line. (Such as a 2 1/4" x 4" piece of plastic from eBay that lands at my door at about 65.00). However, I'm just about done with Home Depot after this.....I think they should call themselves Home Run when they charge like this. I bought five packages of 1 1/4" screws (each package @ 2.97 had 4 screws), one package of 1" screws (20 pieces @2.97), and 18 buttercup washers (@.20). The bill.......23.99. I was thunderstruck. Twenty four bucks for a few screws and washers? It'll be a long, long time before I go to Home Depot (Home Run) again. Friggin' ridiculous.
<button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button>
........and it looks like you didn't get the Phillips heads you wanted either.
I've been through that - trying to find Phillips wood screws to match a lost screw from a Fender or Mesa cabinet. Looks like, in canada, I'd have to cross the border or order on-line. All the stores I went to only had wood screws with Robertson heads.
I admit Robertson is probably a better design but when you're trying to match aesthetics, we should at least have the choice of one or two sizes of Phillips wood screws by at least one supplier. I did ask around and was always told "Robertson is better anyways." I know, but it's like we're blinded by our own arrogance.
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Post by infant on Feb 10, 2022 22:34:02 GMT
You can get Philips head screws at Fastenal and Bolt and Nut Supply.
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Post by zontar on Feb 11, 2022 0:06:40 GMT
I don't normally bitch about what things cost unless I think it's really out of line. (Such as a 2 1/4" x 4" piece of plastic from eBay that lands at my door at about 65.00). However, I'm just about done with Home Depot after this.....I think they should call themselves Home Run when they charge like this. I bought five packages of 1 1/4" screws (each package @ 2.97 had 4 screws), one package of 1" screws (20 pieces @2.97), and 18 buttercup washers (@.20). The bill.......23.99. I was thunderstruck. Twenty four bucks for a few screws and washers? It'll be a long, long time before I go to Home Depot (Home Run) again. Friggin' ridiculous.
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What would that cost you elsewhere?
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Post by spellcaster on Feb 11, 2022 1:36:17 GMT
highdeaf said:........and it looks like you didn't get the Phillips heads you wanted either.
I've been through that - trying to find Phillips wood screws to match a lost screw from a Fender or Mesa cabinet. Looks like, in canada, I'd have to cross the border or order on-line. All the stores I went to only had wood screws with Robertson heads.
I admit Robertson is probably a better design but when you're trying to match aesthetics, we should at least have the choice of one or two sizes of Phillips wood screws by at least one supplier. I did ask around and was always told "Robertson is better anyways." I know, but it's like we're blinded by our own arrogance.
You can get Philips head screws at Fastenal and Bolt and Nut Supply. I decided to try for Philips screws, so I went to Fastenal when I was out doing errands. There's a sign on the door that says "No retail sales" so I didn't get to talk to anyone. They say that they can be contacted by email, so I may try that tonight. I bought the Robertson head screws because I wanted to get this done last night, but since it's dragged out another full day, I guess it's not a big deal if it takes a little longer. I'm only going to do this once, so it may as well be right.
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Post by spellcaster on Feb 11, 2022 1:53:57 GMT
........I bought five packages of 1 1/4" screws (each package @ 2.97 had 4 screws), one package of 1" screws (20 pieces @2.97), and 18 buttercup washers (@.20). The bill.......23.99. I was thunderstruck. Twenty four bucks for a few screws and washers? It'll be a long, long time before I go to Home Depot (Home Run) again. Friggin' ridiculous What would that cost you elsewhere? I can't tell you exactly what it would cost without going to look, but the one package I bought with 20 panhead screws for 2.97 is about the right price. However, you can't buy countersunk head screws in packages that size.......You can only buy packages with 4 screws for 2.97, which isn't fair. I'm going to try to buy the 18 countersunk Philips head screws I need from Fastenal.....I'm sure they'll be less than the 15.00 I can get as a refund from Home Depot when I return the five packages of Robertson head screws.
Everything I've encountered in this project has been about as easy as pushing a piece of chain uphill, lol. When I took the back off the box to properly screw the driver onto the baffleboard, I discovered that the box actually has threaded T-nut anchors to accept machine screws. The two machine screws that were there had been tightened by somebody with a heavy hand on a high speed drill, and the heads were mangled. I spent about an hour getting them out. Another walk to a machine shop to get four correct machine screws with the right thread and pitch. When I got back and tried to mount the driver, I discovered that I can only use two of the screws I got.....The other two T-anchors aren't in the right position to line up with the holes in the speaker frame. So, I'm going to end up having to use some wood screws as well. One step forward and two steps back.....
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Post by highdeaf on Feb 11, 2022 16:15:53 GMT
I decided to try for Philips screws, so I went to Fastenal when I was out doing errands. There's a sign on the door that says "No retail sales" so I didn't get to talk to anyone. They say that they can be contacted by email, so I may try that tonight. I bought the Robertson head screws because I wanted to get this done last night, but since it's dragged out another full day, I guess it's not a big deal if it takes a little longer. I'm only going to do this once, so it may as well be right. [/div] [/quote] I got some on-line from Q-components, a cdn speaker supplier I heard about from some now-dead old forum. I got then along with other stuff, or else the shipping would have killed the deal. And their selection was very limited. Just seems like a lot of hassle for what should be carried by every canucktire or home depot store.
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Post by spellcaster on Feb 11, 2022 18:01:49 GMT
I wrote an email last night to Fastenal and got a reply early this morning. They said they don't carry any Philips head products. I just got off the phone from talking to West Coast Bolt and Supply, which is the biggest outlet on the Island. Same story there....No Philips head screws. I guess I'm going to have to use Robertson heads.
This is a bit ironic.....When I was in the car audio business years ago, I had tons of this type of hardware because speakers were always supplied with Philips head hardware and I always replaced it with Robertson head screws after I'd had a screwdriver slip a couple of times and punch through a speaker cone. So, I had lots of Philips head screws. Unfortunately, I sold the business and all those boxes of Philips screws went with it. There aren't any car audio stores left for me to be able to call one and ask them if they'd sell me some.
I guess the only goods news now is that I can go ahead and finish putting the cabinet back together and re-stack all my gear....as soon as my bad back will let me lift that much weight.
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Post by Die Bullen on Feb 11, 2022 18:59:36 GMT
All joking aside- are you saying that you can't get Philips head screws in Canada anymore? Is it considered an outdated thing or is there something special about the screws you are buying?
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Post by infant on Feb 12, 2022 4:49:41 GMT
All joking aside- are you saying that you can't get Philips head screws in Canada anymore? Is it considered an outdated thing or is there something special about the screws you are buying? That’s about it. Canada has basically moved to Robertson screws en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_screwwhen I was working, we had to use Philips screws as most of our parts were going to the US. We used to buy in huge quantities and I know that we bought screws from Fastenal, Accurate Screw, Spae-Naur and McMaster Carr. McMaster Carr is an American company and so we had no problem getting Philips from them. Thinking about it now, we could still get Philips from Fastenal but because we bought 10K at a time, they would order them from the US for us.
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Post by spellcaster on Feb 12, 2022 6:07:41 GMT
All joking aside- are you saying that you can't get Philips head screws in Canada anymore? Is it considered an outdated thing or is there something special about the screws you are buying? It's proving to be a tough thing to buy as a retail hardware item. The only thing I know of that's readily available in Philips head is drywall screws....and I'm not even sure they're an actual Philips head...They may be Posi-drives, although a Philips head screwdriver will work on them. They're a much different thread pitch than a regular wood screw and they're only available in black, so they're limited in potential as a hardware item that you'd use on a speaker cabinet, although the buttercup washers are available in black, so maybe that's alternative, I guess. But, when you go into a hardware store to buy packages of wood screws, there don't seem to be any Philips heads available. Mainly it's Robertson heads you see in silver or chrome and occasionally a bronze or brass finish.
I've been mulling over any other options, and aside from using drywall screws and black cup washers for my application, the only other possibility would be to use snap caps....a backing snap washer and a plastic cover that pops down over the screw and backing washer. They're available in multiple colours...White, black, beige, and I've also seen them in chrome. They're typically used with kitchen cabinets and in RV applications. That would probably look okay because you could use Robertson head screws and no one would know, but they won't sit as flush to the surface as a counter-sunk head screw and a buttercup washer - They have more of a three dimensional profile, and I can foresee more potential for damage if a cabinet is slid into a spot when loading - caps popping off or breaking because they're plastic - It just seems like a can of worms waiting to happen. Really, a metal screw and buttercup washer would be a lot more durable, because they're metal and a lot flatter profile. The snap caps and backing washers can be countersunk in so they appear flush, but it makes for difficulties if you need to pop the cap off and take things apart. I've done it before when I was building cabinets for sub-woofers in cars and it looks quite smart, but it's probably more trouble than it's worth and might be more problematic in a music gear application where tolex is being used to cover the cabinets.
Just as screws are obviously more of an issue for wood screws, there's also occasional situations arise with guitar hardware. It's easier to source small Philips screw sizes online for pickguards, bridge mounting hardware, tailpiece mounting screws, etc.......It's more likely to find a challenge trying to source the slotted heads that might get used in a restoration or early Tele build. But, I've encountered situations where snap caps and washers are useful to trim off holes that have been left by changing other pieces, such as a control, switch or pot, or a Bigsby. I've used the chrome snap caps for that and also have painted the caps to match a body colour. The caps leave someone with a lot more freedom to pick any type of head because the screw's hidden.
As far as speaker sizes for cabinets go, I'd likely want 1 1/4" length. I honestly haven't spent much time looking online looking at eBay or Amazon, or even places like Stewart MacDonald or Philadelphia Luthiers, so maybe I need to plan on sourcing stuff online. There isn't any real panic to get it done fast, so I can just leave the back fastened with three screws (the way it was when I got it) while I wait for something I order in.
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Post by infant on Feb 12, 2022 13:33:30 GMT
Unless you are trying to restore the cabinet to original specs and appearance due to vintage value, I would just use the Robertson head screws and leave it at that. Just my 2 cents.
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Post by Die Bullen on Feb 12, 2022 14:14:42 GMT
Can you drive to the US and get a crapload of Phillips head screws?
If you are not in a super rush I could go buy some and send them to you?
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