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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2021 6:29:10 GMT
I've been pondering something for a while, and now that my Twin Reverb's back at it's best, I'd like to be interfacing it with my bass amp, a Fender Rumble 150 head. I haven't tried any of this yet, but I have a variety of options here. Hooked up to the Twin I have a Weber Headphone Tap, which samples from the amp's speaker output to headphones and a line output. The Rumble I primarily want in the loop to take advantage of it's Auxiliary Input (from my computer audio). It has a headphone jack, a line output and also Send and Return jacks. I'm still trying to decide whether there are any pros or cons in patching it one way or another. I'm afraid to try cross-connecting them in both directions at the same time in case it sets up a feedback loop that ends badly.
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Post by highdeaf on Aug 19, 2021 16:00:08 GMT
I understand some of your post but not sure what you mean by 'the Rumble I primarily want in the loop'. What is the end result you are hoping to accomplish? That might help some of us understand the big picture offer some advice.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2021 19:22:04 GMT
The Rumble amp has a set of stereo auxiliary RCA inputs that I can plug the audio output of my computer into to play along with. The Twin doesn't, and I'm not sure if I can common the stereo record output jacks of the amplifier from my computer into the mono input of the Normal channel in the Twin.
Am I overthinking this? ....Can I just Y-cord the record outputs of the computer amp into the Normal channel of the Twin and expect the impedance and signal voltage to be close enough?
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Post by highdeaf on Aug 20, 2021 14:30:14 GMT
The Rumble amp has a set of stereo auxiliary RCA inputs that I can plug the audio output of my computer into to play along with. The Twin doesn't, and I'm not sure if I can common the stereo record output jacks of the amplifier from my computer into the mono input of the Normal channel in the Twin. Am I overthinking this? ....Can I just Y-cord the record outputs of the computer amp into the Normal channel of the Twin and expect the impedance and signal voltage to be close enough?
Yes, you can use a Y cable to combine L and R into one summed signal. You may get a little cancellation in the combined signal but it is probably better than using only the L or R by itself - especially with old recordings where they really had massive separation between L and R.
The output impedance of your computer is easily low enough to drive the input of your Twin. The computer's level will be significantly higher than a guitar's passive pickup output, so you will have to be really careful with the level of that channel you are feeding the signal. It won't take much to be really loud - especially with a Twin.
So you won't be able to run the computer and the guitar into the same channel unless you can really attenuate the computer's signal (it's often hard to get just the right volume when you're at the very bottom end of the level control). A little external mixer between the computer and the Twin will give you better control of mixing the L and R signals and controlling the ultimate level to the amp, but it's more gear, which you are probably trying to stay away from.
Is it possible to use the Rumble as your music playback amp and the Twin as your guitar amp? Sometimes bass amps have a bit flatter EQ than guitar amps anyways, if they have a piezo or other HF device.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2021 19:18:52 GMT
Thanks for the responses. I don't see using two amps (Bass amp for music playback, Twin for guitar) as being practical because I'm in an apartment and I have to play with headphones. But, on your recommendation, I'll try running the mono'ed signal from the computer's amp into the Normal channel of the Twin.
Having to play only with headphones has been a source of frustration for me, but I don't see an alternative. The apartment I moved into in February (the only one I've found that I can afford) is an older building, built in 1970. Unlike more modern apartments, where there's concrete poured between floors offering a degree of sound insulation, this building is frame construction and everyone's very aware of the noise from adjoining apartments. One of the major complaints new tenants make is hearing their neighbours get up during the night because the floors squeak so badly that it keeps people awake. As you can imagine, playing a Twin Reverb with a 15" Altec Lansing speaker even at low volumes is out of the question. ( I still haven't heard the Altec Lansing speaker box I traded for back in December when I was on the cusp of moving.....I need to go somewhere else with my amp so I can actually hear what it sounds like)
Anyway, highdeaf, I appreciate your thoughts on my question. I was beginning to to think I'd either stumped the forum, or posed a question so uninteresting that nobody could be bothered to answer, lol.
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Post by highdeaf on Aug 20, 2021 21:53:09 GMT
As you know, some '60s stuff had 'extreme panning' - all the vox on R and all the instruments on L or something like that. The mono cable will work better for most music, but you may find the odd one where a Y-cable is preferential. Either will work fine technically.
Good luck, I hope it works out for you. I've been there, very restricted to what I could play. And I didn't even really have a good headphone solution to use. I'm blessed now with a house, a great wife and a good headphone amp. So I've got options now I've never had before --- and I don't take it for granted, who knows what the future will bring.
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Post by markr on Aug 21, 2021 1:03:49 GMT
John I wasn't sure what you were asking for, didn't want to look stupid!
Too bad you can't crank up where you live.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2021 1:42:32 GMT
Looks like I'm stalled for at least a couple more days.....I've looked high and low for an assortment of patchcords that will let me run a line from my computer amp's record outputs to the Normal channel input of the Twin Reverb, but no such luck. When I was getting ready to make my move back at New Years, I had to do some fairly merciless throwing out, and it appears that I've disposed of all my 12 foot dual RCA cables and RCA y-cords. I guess I'll be shopping on eBay or Amazon after I get my pension check.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2021 0:56:20 GMT
I have an order together for the patchcords and adaptor to patch my computer amp's record outputs into the Normal channel of my Twin Reverb, which I'll be sending tomorrow morning.
One additional question in my mind is something that highdeaf mentioned....I'm sure the signal level will be high and it'll be a real pain in the butt if I have to fiddle with attenuating my computer's audio output every time I want to send a signal to my guitar amp. I see a couple of possible solutions - Either, as highdeaf mentioned, some piece of electronics such as a mixer to reduce the signal, or else to reinstall a low-gain 12AU7 or 12AY7 into V1 of the Twin.
I'd prefer an electronic solution if I could find something really cheap to do it. Any suggestions on an inexpensive way to do it? Could I build a simple passive box with just a potentiometer to reduce the signal (and if so, what electronic value of pot?), or do I have to buy a mixer or some other piece of electronics?
I remember years ago when I was in the audio industry, we used to sell attenuating patchcords to reduce the output of ceramic-cartridge turntables so they wouldn't overload magnetic-cartridge phono inputs in stereo amplifiers. Anything like that that I can build or buy ready-made?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2021 21:17:01 GMT
I ordered some cables to solve my patching problem from Quebec on August 27th. They waited three days to begin the shipping process, but eventually sent the information to Fed Ex. From there, things started to go downhill. Here's the latest summary of tracking information...
Time zone
Wednesday, September 8, 2021
6:20 PM DELTA, BC In transit
Tuesday, September 7, 2021
10:24 PM DELTA, BC In transit
10:24 AM DELTA, BC In transit
Monday, September 6, 2021
10:23 PM DELTA, BC In transit
5:27 AM OKANAGAN-SIMILKAMEEN, BC In transit
Sunday, September 5, 2021
6:25 PM CYPRESS COUNTY, AB In transit
7:19 AM WEST ST PAUL, MB In transit
3:36 AM WINNIPEG, MB In transit
Saturday, September 4, 2021
3:36 PM WINNIPEG, MB In transit
1:03 AM KENORA DISTRICT, ON In transit
Friday, September 3, 2021
2:02 PM MOOSONEE, ON In transit
1:59 AM DORVAL, QC Departed FedEx location
Thursday, September 2, 2021
6:57 PM DORVAL, QC Arrived at FedEx location
12:00 AM DORVAL, QC Picked up
Tuesday, August 31, 2021
11:56 PM Shipment information sent to FedEx
Fed Ex originally said it would be here before the end of the business day Tuesday. Now, they're saying by the end of the business day Friday. These guys are useless and and are really tripping on their dinks if they can't ship cross-country without getting three days behind. I was basically satisfied with the seller, but probably will never order from them again if they're going to continue to use Fed Ex....
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Post by highdeaf on Sept 10, 2021 17:44:45 GMT
I 'liked' your post, but of course don't like it in the true sense. I feel your frustration.
I just had a situation where my bank (one of the Canadian big 5) held the funds of a cheque written from another Can big 5 bank for 5 working days. That meant from last Wednesday till today (they don't count the day I deposited the cheque with a teller at 9:45 AM). Is my bank afraid the other big 5 bank is going titters in the next few hours? The cheque may bounce? We all know this money is moved electronically in less than a second. How can the process take 778,000 seconds?
In reality, the banks are using that money for free (it was not an insignificant amount). That's how they make the profits they make. I've said to my bank manager's face recently, "I don't know if I can afford to keep my money in your institution, but I sure am happy I can own your stock. You are no-lose institution in Canada."
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2021 18:59:30 GMT
I finally got my patchcord order this morning and I'm busy trying get things up and running. I have a small Samson mixer which highdeaf generously donated to the cause, but so far I'm not having too much luck putting things together. In all honesty, he suggested plugging the computer audio signal and my Twin Reverb into the mixer and then monitoring the mixer with headphones, but it hasn't worked out well. The headphone output from the Weber Headphone Tap connected to the Twin doesn't seem to match well with the mixer. I've tried running the computer audio signal through the mixer to cut it down and then running the output of the mixer into the Normal channel of the Twin. It works, but the channel gain on the mixer needs to be almost wide open, the signal needs to be connected to the first (higher gain) input jack of the Normal channel of the Twin, and the volume control on the Normal channel needs to be set to almost 5 to get adequate volume. The audio is thin-sounding and the hiss level is fairly high. I'm guessing I'm experiencing an impedance mismatch, but I'm not 100% sure where to go from here.
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Post by Die Bullen on Sept 10, 2021 20:01:06 GMT
I 'liked' your post, but of course don't like it in the true sense. I feel your frustration.
I just had a situation where my bank (one of the Canadian big 5) held the funds of a cheque written from another Can big 5 bank for 5 working days. That meant from last Wednesday till today (they don't count the day I deposited the cheque with a teller at 9:45 AM). Is my bank afraid the other big 5 bank is going titters in the next few hours? The cheque may bounce? We all know this money is moved electronically in less than a second. How can the process take 778,000 seconds?
In reality, the banks are using that money for free (it was not an insignificant amount). That's how they make the profits they make. I've said to my bank manager's face recently, "I don't know if I can afford to keep my money in your institution, but I sure am happy I can own your stock. You are no-lose institution in Canada."
Just think how well those banks will do if they actually raise interest rates to a normal level?... |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2021 22:14:03 GMT
I'm struggling with a computer issue now and don't know if and when I'll get back here.
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Post by markr on Sept 11, 2021 1:03:21 GMT
I finally got my patchcord order this morning and I'm busy trying get things up and running. I have a small Samson mixer which highdeaf generously donated to the cause, but so far I'm not having too much luck putting things together. In all honesty, he suggested plugging the computer audio signal and my Twin Reverb into the mixer and then monitoring the mixer with headphones, but it hasn't worked out well. The headphone output from the Weber Headphone Tap connected to the Twin doesn't seem to match well with the mixer. I've tried running the computer audio signal through the mixer to cut it down and then running the output of the mixer into the Normal channel of the Twin. It works, but the channel gain on the mixer needs to be almost wide open, the signal needs to be connected to the first (higher gain) input jack of the Normal channel of the Twin, and the volume control on the Normal channel needs to be set to almost 5 to get adequate volume. The audio is thin-sounding and the hiss level is fairly high. I'm guessing I'm experiencing an impedance mismatch, but I'm not 100% sure where to go from here. Can you post pictures of what you are doing? I sorry I am visual dyslexic learner, I'd like to try and help you out. |
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Post by markr on Sept 11, 2021 1:05:45 GMT
I'm struggling with a computer issue now and don't know if and when I'll get back here. Well $#|¥, good luck with that! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2021 3:51:57 GMT
I finally got my patchcord order this morning and I'm busy trying get things up and running. I have a small Samson mixer which highdeaf generously donated to the cause, but so far I'm not having too much luck putting things together. In all honesty, he suggested plugging the computer audio signal and my Twin Reverb into the mixer and then monitoring the mixer with headphones, but it hasn't worked out well. The headphone output from the Weber Headphone Tap connected to the Twin doesn't seem to match well with the mixer. I've tried running the computer audio signal through the mixer to cut it down and then running the output of the mixer into the Normal channel of the Twin. It works, but the channel gain on the mixer needs to be almost wide open, the signal needs to be connected to the first (higher gain) input jack of the Normal channel of the Twin, and the volume control on the Normal channel needs to be set to almost 5 to get adequate volume. The audio is thin-sounding and the hiss level is fairly high. I'm guessing I'm experiencing an impedance mismatch, but I'm not 100% sure where to go from here. Can you post pictures of what you are doing? I sorry I am visual dyslexic learner, I'd like to try and help you out. Wish I could post a picture. Between wrangling with this issue, beating my head against the wall because of the computer, and my newest camera failing, I'm having a bad week with electronics. (My previous camera suddenly decided every picture should have Borg green glow, so I bought an identical used camera on eBay a couple of weeks ago....Now, the new camera's turning everything red, so no more photos for a while.
I appreciate the offer of help, but a description of the problem's the best I can do. I know there's supposed to be a camera in my phone, but I haven't the slightest idea how to use it, and I'm totally clueless how I'd transfer a picture from the camera to the computer, even if I could take one.
I spent all but about an hour of today trying to get the computer up and running. Tomorrow, I'll take another swing at figuring out the guitar/mixer/amp issue.
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Post by Die Bullen on Sept 11, 2021 13:02:01 GMT
Can you post pictures of what you are doing? I sorry I am visual dyslexic learner, I'd like to try and help you out. Wish I could post a picture. Between wrangling with this issue, beating my head against the wall because of the computer, and my newest camera failing, I'm having a bad week with electronics. (My previous camera suddenly decided every picture should have Borg green glow, so I bought an identical used camera on eBay a couple of weeks ago....Now, the new camera's turning everything red, so no more photos for a while.
I appreciate the offer of help, but a description of the problem's the best I can do. I know there's supposed to be a camera in my phone, but I haven't the slightest idea how to use it, and I'm totally clueless how I'd transfer a picture from the camera to the computer, even if I could take one.
I spent all but about an hour of today trying to get the computer up and running. Tomorrow, I'll take another swing at figuring out the guitar/mixer/amp issue.
I really wonder if it isn't smart phone time for you Ken- it would simplify a lot |
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Post by highdeaf on Sept 11, 2021 16:04:56 GMT
I finally got my patchcord order this morning and I'm busy trying get things up and running. I have a small Samson mixer which highdeaf generously donated to the cause, but so far I'm not having too much luck putting things together. In all honesty, he suggested plugging the computer audio signal and my Twin Reverb into the mixer and then monitoring the mixer with headphones, but it hasn't worked out well. The headphone output from the Weber Headphone Tap connected to the Twin doesn't seem to match well with the mixer. I've tried running the computer audio signal through the mixer to cut it down and then running the output of the mixer into the Normal channel of the Twin. It works, but the channel gain on the mixer needs to be almost wide open, the signal needs to be connected to the first (higher gain) input jack of the Normal channel of the Twin, and the volume control on the Normal channel needs to be set to almost 5 to get adequate volume. The audio is thin-sounding and the hiss level is fairly high. I'm guessing I'm experiencing an impedance mismatch, but I'm not 100% sure where to go from here.
It might be worth simplifying at this point. Try the cables you have directly from the computer's sound card to one of the channels of the Twin - and then the Twin into headphones (I think your first idea). You'll just have to be a bit cautious of the level set on the computer and the input level of the amp. Perhaps the mixer will be useless to you, perhaps it can be used in another aspect of your system.
It just sucks that you're now dealing with technical problem while trying to use the tech to solve a problem. Obviously that has to be resolved first. Good luck.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2021 18:53:43 GMT
I guess trying running the computer audio direct to the Twin would be the next logical step. I've been trying to avoid that just because the signal level from the computer is so high. When I tried running the computer sound into the Aux inputs in my Rumble bass amp, it was outrageously loud and the only way to reduce the mismatch was to turn the computer's audio output way down....And as was mentioned in an earlier post, it's really hard to get fine enough control to regulate the sound output of the computer finely enough to get a reasonably close match. That's why I was hoping to use the mixer as a way of padding the signal down before it got to the Twin.
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Post by markr on Sept 12, 2021 1:22:36 GMT
Make sure that there is no signal buffers or mute switches engaged on the mixer, sometimes a low level signal will come through on fx sends or aux sends. I am not familiar with a Samson board. High deaf may be able to offer more insight?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2021 2:39:04 GMT
Make sure that there is no signal buffers or mute switches engaged on the mixer, sometimes a low level signal will come through on fx sends or aux sends. I am not familiar with a Samson board. High deaf may be able to offer more insight? No buffers, switches or send circuits. The Samson's a fairly basic little interface with RCA, 1/4", and XLR connectors in and out and some pots to mix levels. I've been using the RCA inputs because the audio signal from the computer comes from the record output jacks of the Technics receiver that drives the computer's sound system. I'm using the 1/4" phone jack output and a standard shielded guitar cable from the mixer to the Normal channel of the Twin Reverb. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2021 23:58:18 GMT
I've had to back-burner this for a few days while I sort out the computer issues. I hope to be back to this in about a week. I'm getting anxious to play.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2021 22:41:34 GMT
I've been thinking about this situation while I'm working on the computer problem. I've got a 12AY7 in V1 on the Twin because I anticipated needing a way to pad down the signal from the computer. But, now I'm having to run the Normal channel volume at about 5. I think I'll try changing that 12AY7 out for a 12AX7 in V1. Hopefully that'll not only give me enough gain with the volume at a more moderate level and cure some of the thin-ness that I'm hearing.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2021 2:52:53 GMT
Well, I pulled my Twin head apart to change that tube in V1. When I pulled it out, I realized that it wasn't a 12AY7....It was a 12AU7, even lower gain, so it's no wonder I was having to run the volume on the channel up so high. Anyway, I installed the new 12AX7 which should sound quite a bit better. Too tired to get into testing it now, but tomorrow I'll have a go at it and see if I'm closer to a workable system.
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Post by Die Bullen on Sept 23, 2021 10:01:00 GMT
Well, I pulled my Twin head apart to change that tube in V1. When I pulled it out, I realized that it wasn't a 12AY7....It was a 12AU7, even lower gain, so it's no wonder I was having to run the volume on the channel up so high. Anyway, I installed the new 12AX7 which should sound quite a bit better. Too tired to get into testing it now, but tomorrow I'll have a go at it and see if I'm closer to a workable system. Going to the 12AX7 should do the trick for you if you want gain. Curious to see the difference when you test it |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2021 2:37:53 GMT
Postscript for the hookup scramble....I changed the preamp tube in V1 of the Twin Reverb to a 12AX7, and it's made a world of difference. Things sound great and I think I'm finally ready to rock. A shout out to Brent (highdeaf) who helped out with the mixer that made this all work....Many thanks, my friend, I appreciate it.
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