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Post by johnreardon on Apr 17, 2021 8:02:04 GMT
Back on the 23rd Sep 2016 our singer, Adrian couldn't make the gig. He was traveling all the way from Spain and just couldn't get there in time. He actually arrived in Wales just after midnight., so was ok for the gig the following night. So it was quite interesting when we played a lot of stuff with different band members singing stuff, including this one, that Adrian normally sang. Ted on drums did quite a good job filling in.
It was my wedding anniversary as well
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Post by Die Bullen on Apr 17, 2021 14:19:25 GMT
Back on the 23rd Sep 2016 our singer, Adrian couldn't make the gig. He was traveling all the way from Spain and just couldn't get there in time. He actually arrived in Wales just after midnight., so was ok for the gig the following night. So it was quite interesting when we played a lot of stuff with different band members singing stuff, including this one, that Adrian normally sang. Ted on drums did quite a good job filling in.
It was my wedding anniversary as well
Is this the gig you previously mentioned where you guys filled in as singer?
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Post by johnreardon on Apr 17, 2021 14:41:51 GMT
Back on the 23rd Sep 2016 our singer, Adrian couldn't make the gig. He was traveling all the way from Spain and just couldn't get there in time. He actually arrived in Wales just after midnight., so was ok for the gig the following night. So it was quite interesting when we played a lot of stuff with different band members singing stuff, including this one, that Adrian normally sang. Ted on drums did quite a good job filling in.
It was my wedding anniversary as well
Is this the gig you previously mentioned where you guys filled in as singer? That's the one.
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Post by Die Bullen on Apr 17, 2021 15:24:08 GMT
Great that you guys could fill in like that!
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Post by zontar on Apr 18, 2021 1:48:41 GMT
Great that you guys could fill in like that! Always nice to have people who can cover for others in a band. Just in case, and for other reasons as well.
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Post by infant on Apr 18, 2021 3:43:49 GMT
One New Years Eve gig a few years back, I was getting over a terrible cold. I probably sang about 3 songs before I lost my voice completely....raspy, squeaky and lost about half an octave. With 3 other singers in the band, everyone else took turns. It worked out so well with some songs, that I gave a few of them up and not the others are singing them. As I’ve mentioned in the past, one of the guys lives 3 hours away and only comes down for the good paying gigs. So when he doesn’t come we’ve already figured out who sings his songs. I feel blessed to have so many great singers in the band...it’s a great safety net!
This reminds me of another gig we did. Keyboard player was in a wedding party and couldn’t make it. Then a week before the gig, one of the horn players got a chest infection. That left me, the bass player, drummer and other horn player (that lived 3 hours away). Two days before the gig that horn player got snowed in under 3 feet of snow so suddenly we were down to a power trio!! After some serious begging, I got the sick horn player to come out and try to play and the night turned out pretty decent all things considered. In fact, the horn player started felling better and at one point said to me “let’s do Pianoman” and I said “no”. He then asks “why not” at which point I stepped aside and pointed to the empty spot where the keyboard player should be. To this day we still get a good laugh out of that one. His illness must have made him delirious!
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Post by johnreardon on Apr 18, 2021 8:44:27 GMT
Great that you guys could fill in like that! Yes it's useful. The drummer singing this has his own band where he's the only singer, so he's used to it. Only trouble with him is that he can be a bit particular in arrangements. His band doesn't ad-lib much, whereas we do
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Post by Die Bullen on Apr 18, 2021 12:54:04 GMT
Our band has no singer and never did. It probably would add to the overall feel but I really never learned to sing while playing. The trombone player thinks he's a good singer but he's not. My son just stayed voice lessons this semester so he would not be ready.
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Post by infant on Apr 18, 2021 15:16:43 GMT
Great that you guys could fill in like that! Yes it's useful. The drummer singing this has his own band where he's the only singer, so he's used to it. Only trouble with him is that he can be a bit particular in arrangements. His band doesn't ad-lib much, whereas we doThat’s like our keyboard player. He learns his solos note for note and wants us to do songs exactly like the original recordings.
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Post by Die Bullen on Apr 18, 2021 15:49:57 GMT
Yes it's useful. The drummer singing this has his own band where he's the only singer, so he's used to it. Only trouble with him is that he can be a bit particular in arrangements. His band doesn't ad-lib much, whereas we doThat’s like our keyboard player. He learns his solos note for note and wants us to do songs exactly like the original recordings. That's tough. Our forms are all pretty much Melody once and then sections are open for solos. I hate scripted solos
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Post by Bill h on Apr 18, 2021 18:03:53 GMT
That’s like our keyboard player. He learns his solos note for note and wants us to do songs exactly like the original recordings. That's tough. Our forms are all pretty much Melody once and then sections are open for solos. I hate scripted solos I’m not good enough to duplicate anyone’s solo note for note but I do understand that there are parts of solos everyone recognizes and I’ve always felt those parts should be pretty close. I take liberties with almost every solo, stuffing my own licks in between the most recognizable licks is the recipe I’ve always used.
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Post by Die Bullen on Apr 18, 2021 18:49:50 GMT
That's tough. Our forms are all pretty much Melody once and then sections are open for solos. I hate scripted solos I’m not good enough to duplicate anyone’s solo note for note but I do understand that there are parts of solos everyone recognizes and I’ve always felt those parts should be pretty close. I take liberties with almost every solo, stuffing my own licks in between the most recognizable licks is the recipe I’ve always used. I'm sure if you really wanted to duplicate a solo note for note, you could, but it would take time. And why would you want to anyway
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Post by infant on Apr 18, 2021 19:36:43 GMT
I’m not good enough to duplicate anyone’s solo note for note but I do understand that there are parts of solos everyone recognizes and I’ve always felt those parts should be pretty close. I take liberties with almost every solo, stuffing my own licks in between the most recognizable licks is the recipe I’ve always used. I'm sure if you really wanted to duplicate a solo note for note, you could, but it would take time. And why would you want to anyway Exactly! If somebody wanted to hear the song note for note, they’d listen to the original artist. Everyone else in the band improvises on their solos, keyboard player is the only one who learns them verbatim. He’s never really learned how to improvise. I had him over one night for a blues jam with our drummer, bass player and another guitar player and he felt uncomfortable trying to think up something to play for a solo. It’s unfortunate because he’s an incredible keyboard player. Like Bill H said about taking liberties around the recognizable licks, I think we all do something like that. We all like to start the solo with a familiar hook and then we are on our own.
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Post by zontar on Apr 18, 2021 23:32:53 GMT
I would hate being in a band that didn't allow for any freedom or improv like that.
Even when I play bass in church --for the most part I can make up my own bass parts--sometimes the leader wants me to be louder or softer in one spot, or to come in on the second verse, etc--but for the most part I get the chords & play what I like--of course I make sure it fits the song.
But I have a lot of freedom.
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Post by zontar on Apr 18, 2021 23:33:51 GMT
Although there is one guy I used to jame with that wrote out his solos--and you wouldn't know--they sounded improvised.
As for me--I doubt I could pay my own solos exact the next time around.
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Post by infant on Apr 19, 2021 2:10:46 GMT
Ya, our keyboard player is the only guy that doesn’t improvise. What’s the use of being an artist if you are copying others?
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Post by zontar on Apr 19, 2021 2:22:17 GMT
Ya, our keyboard player is the only guy that doesn’t improvise. What’s the use of being an artist if you are copying others? Well it's a way to learn--but why stop there? Or even worry about achieving it perfectly. I mena--if you want to--cool. But build on that.
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Post by johnreardon on Apr 19, 2021 8:28:37 GMT
Yes it's useful. The drummer singing this has his own band where he's the only singer, so he's used to it. Only trouble with him is that he can be a bit particular in arrangements. His band doesn't ad-lib much, whereas we doThat’s like our keyboard player. He learns his solos note for note and wants us to do songs exactly like the original recordings. I can't stand that.
If bands ask me to play a solo such from a Clapton song I'll say ' No, Clapton doesn't play like me so why should I play like him'. If they argue, I'll ask which version as most of these people will play different solos each time they play. I'll then ignore them.
Recorded solos and vocals are often an amalgamation of different takes, so it's a bit silly to try and reproduce exactly like the originals. I much prefer to see bands enjoying themselves on stage and maybe cocking things up, rather than stand there like automatons. If I wanted to hear a song exactly, I'd play the record
I will put a little bit of a solo if it's something well known such as 'Allright Now', but I never play it exactly.
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Post by Die Bullen on Apr 19, 2021 11:38:41 GMT
Agree with all of you guys- although I am not a soloist on guitar I think all the horns (and the drummer) should simply figure out their own parts. It really annoys me when big band music solos are completely scripted out
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Post by Sgt Rock on Apr 19, 2021 18:15:56 GMT
That’s like our keyboard player. He learns his solos note for note and wants us to do songs exactly like the original recordings. I can't stand that.
If bands ask me to play a solo such from a Clapton song I'll say ' No, Clapton doesn't play like me so why should I play like him'. If they argue, I'll ask which version as most of these people will play different solos each time they play. I'll then ignore them.
Recorded solos and vocals are often an amalgamation of different takes, so it's a bit silly to try and reproduce exactly like the originals. I much prefer to see bands enjoying themselves on stage and maybe cocking things up, rather than stand there like automatons. If I wanted to hear a song exactly, I'd play the record
I will put a little bit of a solo if it's something well known such as 'Allright Now', but I never play it exactly.
I remember Ginger Baker once saying that Eric never played the same lead twice when he was with Cream.
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Post by Sgt Rock on Apr 19, 2021 18:23:44 GMT
Agree with all of you guys- although I am not a soloist on guitar I think all the horns (and the drummer) should simply figure out their own parts. It really annoys me when big band music solos are completely scripted out most of those guys only know how to play by reading music. so, that's how they play. they never color out of the "box"/over the lines.
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Post by Die Bullen on Apr 19, 2021 22:30:13 GMT
Agree with all of you guys- although I am not a soloist on guitar I think all the horns (and the drummer) should simply figure out their own parts. It really annoys me when big band music solos are completely scripted out most of those guys only know how to play by reading music. so, that's how they play. they never color out of the "box"/over the lines. It is a very difficult line for many to cross in both directions. Many Guys who are trained only to read music simply can't play by ear, and if all you know how to do is play by ear, reading at tempo is impossible
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Post by infant on Apr 19, 2021 23:42:03 GMT
That’s like our keyboard player. He learns his solos note for note and wants us to do songs exactly like the original recordings. I can't stand that.
If bands ask me to play a solo such from a Clapton song I'll say ' No, Clapton doesn't play like me so why should I play like him'. If they argue, I'll ask which version as most of these people will play different solos each time they play. I'll then ignore them.
Recorded solos and vocals are often an amalgamation of different takes, so it's a bit silly to try and reproduce exactly like the originals. I much prefer to see bands enjoying themselves on stage and maybe cocking things up, rather than stand there like automatons. If I wanted to hear a song exactly, I'd play the record
I will put a little bit of a solo if it's something well known such as 'Allright Now', but I never play it exactly.
This is what I was saying above. They may as well hire a disc jockey to play instead of a band.
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Post by infant on Apr 20, 2021 0:07:36 GMT
most of those guys only know how to play by reading music. so, that's how they play. they never color out of the "box"/over the lines. It is a very difficult line for many to cross in both directions. Many Guys who are trained only to read music simply can't play by ear, and if all you know how to do is play by ear, reading at tempo is impossible I’m not sure I understand what you are saying. Our main horn player has a degree in music and taught high school music for 40 years. He will write out the horn lines for the songs that we play but he will improvise when called upon to solo.
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Post by Die Bullen on Apr 20, 2021 1:18:21 GMT
It is a very difficult line for many to cross in both directions. Many Guys who are trained only to read music simply can't play by ear, and if all you know how to do is play by ear, reading at tempo is impossible I’m not sure I understand what you are saying. Our main horn player has a degree in music and taught high school music for 40 years. He will write out the horn lines for the songs that we play but he will improvise when called upon to solo. What I'm saying is that purely ear players are as lost if the have to read as much as someone who can only read written parts. Of course there are many people who can do both, but if you can only do one, it is hard to cross the line.
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Post by zontar on Apr 20, 2021 5:55:01 GMT
It's music--it's an art--it's emotion. Go for it.
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Post by johnreardon on Apr 20, 2021 7:43:42 GMT
It is a very difficult line for many to cross in both directions. Many Guys who are trained only to read music simply can't play by ear, and if all you know how to do is play by ear, reading at tempo is impossible I’m not sure I understand what you are saying. Our main horn player has a degree in music and taught high school music for 40 years. He will write out the horn lines for the songs that we play but he will improvise when called upon to solo. I have played with quite a few, mainly guitarists but the occasional keyboard player, who were readers. Yes, they could play rock music at jams and gigs, but not one of them could improvise. Obviously some can, but none that I've played with. They seem terrified of it
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Post by Die Bullen on Apr 20, 2021 11:46:38 GMT
I’m not sure I understand what you are saying. Our main horn player has a degree in music and taught high school music for 40 years. He will write out the horn lines for the songs that we play but he will improvise when called upon to solo. I have played with quite a few, mainly guitarists but the occasional keyboard player, who were readers. Yes, they could play rock music at jams and gigs, but not one of them could improvise. Obviously some can, but none that I've played with. They seem terrified of it Admittedly, I'm not much of an improvisor myself, or a soloist for that matter. I am very happy being a rhythm guy in the back line.
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Post by zontar on Apr 21, 2021 3:03:44 GMT
When I taught guitar I would cover improvising with students--especially in the bands. I found the guitar players took to it more easily than the keyboard players--btu there were a couple that picked up the idea very quickly and they did a great job.
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Post by Die Bullen on Apr 23, 2021 0:31:20 GMT
When I taught guitar I would cover improvising with students--especially in the bands. I found the guitar players took to it more easily than the keyboard players--btu there were a couple that picked up the idea very quickly and they did a great job. Many (most?) keyboard players are taught at a young age to read music, and many can do it very excellently. Much more so than I ever will. But I've also met quite a few keyboard players that simply can't adapt to improvisation and don't want to. It is a very different mentality
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