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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2021 2:15:15 GMT
I've owned my share of gear over the years but haven't seen a lot of them with tweeters. I can understand why that might make sense because the useful audible range of a guitar signal doesn't get up over 10K like it would with a stereo speaker.
However, I just noticed that the Ampeg Portaflex PF-210HE cabinet I bought to use for bass has one. I think I remember briefly plugging the Twin Reverb head into it when I first got it, more out of curiosity than anything....I recollected that the old Fender Tremolux head came with a 2 x 10" cabinet, so I wonder what two ten's would sound like with a Twin. It worked, but didn't have much top end, which I sort of expected from a bass speaker box. However, in the last couple of days, I've had a closer look at the box - I needed something to lift my big flat-screen TV further up in the air, and because the reversible lid on the Ampeg Portadlex cabinet can reverse with the handle inside, it was a nicer, flatter surface to put the TV on than my Altec Lansing box would have. When I took the lid off the cabinet to reverse it and stash the casters inside, I happened to notice the tweeter in there, which I'd totally forgotten about.
Maybe it's not quite correct to call it a tweeter...Ampeg refers to it as a 1" HF compression driver with an L-pad level control....but it's got me thinking that it might actually make a decent guitar cabinet with the top end driver cranked up. One day next week, when the landlady's at work, I think I'm going to plug the Twin Reverb into the Ampeg cabinet again, turn up the HF driver (which has been turned off up to now), and just see how it sounds. I just looked at the cabinet on the Long & McQuade site and they quote frequency response from 37 Hz - 17KHz, so it should sound okay for guitar as well. And, just by-the-by, I'd never looked close at the specs before, but I notice that it's pretty efficient too - 99.6 dB @ 1 watt/1 meter.....Not too far off what I was getting from my old JBL K140 15" bass speakers. I'm a little more impressed than I was initially. (I still haven't had a chance to play this thing in a band setting to really see what it can do.)
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Post by infant on Jan 17, 2021 4:45:27 GMT
I had a Traynor Dynabass 200T for my sons bass. It was a 2-10 with a tweeter. I tried it at a gig once and found the tweeter made the guitar sound brittle. I had to turn the tweeter off. However, our bass player used it for a couple of gigs and the tweeter gave the bass some good punch.
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Post by zontar on Jan 17, 2021 8:26:10 GMT
Never tried one amp wise--but have played through PAs with them.
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Post by Die Bullen on Jan 17, 2021 16:42:20 GMT
I have/ have had a few amps with tweeters. Probably they are best paired with a 15" speaker, because they give tons of low end but little highs. Crossovers are however required, meaning complexity and something else to fail over time.
My Portaflex was a a B12xy, which had a tweeter- but the 1960's Ampeg was really trying to differentiate itself with premium features for "discerning jazz players"
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Post by infant on Jan 17, 2021 18:06:07 GMT
Never tried one amp wise--but have played through PAs with them. I bet it sounded pretty thin right? The only way I can play my guitar directly thru a PA is with a guitar processor between the two. |
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Post by infant on Jan 17, 2021 18:21:27 GMT
As DB said, you need a crossover. A bass amp should already have a crossover built into it but if you want to build a tweeter into an amp, you definitely need a x-over or you will replacing the tweeter after the first time you use it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2021 19:03:48 GMT
For a conventional tweeter, a crossover's required, but for a compression driver (horn) normally a crossover or capacitor is redundant.
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Post by Die Bullen on Jan 17, 2021 22:00:13 GMT
As DB said, you need a crossover. A bass amp should already have a crossover built into it but if you want to build a tweeter into an amp, you definitely need a x-over or you will replacing the tweeter after the first time you use it. I'm pretty sure that the henricksen cab I ordered has a tweeter with a crossover. I've heard that the amp was originally designed for bass and is very dark without the tweeter |
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Post by zontar on Jan 17, 2021 22:01:06 GMT
Never tried one amp wise--but have played through PAs with them. I bet it sounded pretty thin right? The only way I can play my guitar directly thru a PA is with a guitar processor between the two. Well it's either been with a amp that was micced or a DI of some sort was used--so it worked. |
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Post by Die Bullen on Jan 17, 2021 22:03:15 GMT
For a conventional tweeter, a crossover's required, but for a compression driver (horn) normally a crossover or capacitor is redundant. I actually had no idea that a compression driver didn't need a crossover. I have a couple antique horns from the 1950's from my grandfather's old Fisher hi fi, one midrange that looks like something from MASH and a tweeter. That unit did have a crossover but audio has probably come a long way since then |
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Post by infant on Jan 18, 2021 2:52:47 GMT
For a conventional tweeter, a crossover's required, but for a compression driver (horn) normally a crossover or capacitor is redundant. This may be true for lower wattage speaker systems but both my Peavey PR12 and Behringer PA speakers have titanium compression drivers with crossovers. assets.peavey.com/literature/specs/116536_13931.pdf |
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Post by johnreardon on Jan 18, 2021 10:53:33 GMT
Never seen guitarists use them, but I have seen bass players, not that they aren't guitarists, have them. Also some PA speakers
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Post by Die Bullen on Jan 18, 2021 14:16:56 GMT
I just checked and my 1958 Ampeg new Yorker has a separate pot on channel 1 that controls the tweeter-it is called ultra high
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2021 9:45:39 GMT
I thought maybe I could breathe some life into this discussion by bringing up my Altec Lansing 15" 418 Series II speaker. I bought it basically sight unseen, and it didn't turn out to be the right thing. I originally bought it to use as a bass cabinet but it really didn't sound deep enough for bass. I belatedly came to realize that I'd been assuming the 418 was a lighter duty version of the Altec Lansing 421 I was trying resurrect earlier last summer. It turns out that the 418 Is actually intended more as a guitar or organ speaker. The driver came to me loaded in what appears to be a generic enclosure rather than something that was designed for the driver. When I first got it, I realized pretty early on that the right way to deal with it was to use it with my Twin Reverb for guitar. I tuned the cabinet a bit....There were two vent openings - one at the top and one at the bottom. I cut a piece of 3/8" automotive ABS and Gorilla taped it over the top vent in the baffle board, and it does seem to have tightened the bass response by unloading the bottom vent in the baffleboard right onto the floor.
This is where I come back to the subject of tweeters in guitar amps....I'm pretty used to the sound of two 15" JBL D-130F's, which are quite bright. What I'm noticing is that the Altec Lansing 418, while it's a good driver, doesn't have that sweet shine that I've grown to like. I've starting kick around the idea of adding a high frequency driver and probably an L-pad, so I can tweak the high frequency response just a bit.
This is where I start to run into unfamiliar territory. Ask me about high end drivers for home audio and I'll have ideas about what to use. In a guitar amp....Who knows? Have any of you guys got any thoughts? A horn? (ugh!) or some kind of cone tweeter with a capacitor, or a compression driver?
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Post by Die Bullen on Feb 11, 2021 12:24:54 GMT
I thought maybe I could breathe some life into this discussion by bringing up my Altec Lansing 15" 418 Series II speaker. I bought it basically sight unseen, and it didn't turn out to be the right thing. I originally bought it to use as a bass cabinet but it really didn't sound deep enough for bass. I belatedly came to realize that I'd been assuming the 418 was a lighter duty version of the Altec Lansing 421 I was trying resurrect earlier last summer. It turns out that the 418 Is actually intended more as a guitar or organ speaker. The driver came to me loaded in what appears to be a generic enclosure rather than something that was designed for the driver. When I first got it, I realized pretty early on that the right way to deal with it was to use it with my Twin Reverb for guitar. I tuned the cabinet a bit....There were two vent openings - one at the top and one at the bottom. I cut a piece of 3/8" automotive ABS and Gorilla taped it over the top vent in the baffle board, and it does seem to have tightened the bass response by unloading the bottom vent in the baffleboard right onto the floor. This is where I come back to the subject of tweeters in guitar amps....I'm pretty used to the sound of two 15" JBL D-130F's, which are quite bright. What I'm noticing is that the Altec Lansing 418, while it's a good driver, doesn't have that sweet shine that I've grown to like. I've starting kick around the idea of adding a high frequency driver and probably an L-pad, so I can tweak the high frequency response just a bit. This is where I start to run into unfamiliar territory. Ask me about high end drivers for home audio and I'll have ideas about what to use. In a guitar amp....Who knows? Have any of you guys got any thoughts? A horn? (ugh!) or some kind of cone tweeter with a capacitor, or a compression driver? My new Henricksen cab will have a tweeter- do you want me to call them and ask them what they use? |
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Post by infant on Feb 11, 2021 13:47:37 GMT
Contact these guys and ask them what they would recommend. I have bought speakers and replacement drivers from them in the past. They’ve been pretty helpful. They carry Celestion, Eminence and B&C as well as some lower priced offshore speakers. They are based out of Waterloo Ontario. If I still had my Traynor Dynabass, 200T, I would have taken the back off of it to see what they used in it but I sold it a couple of years ago.. mcbrideloudspeaker.com/home.php |
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Post by highdeaf on Jul 7, 2021 17:13:55 GMT
For a conventional tweeter, a crossover's required, but for a compression driver (horn) normally a crossover or capacitor is redundant. I actually had no idea that a compression driver didn't need a crossover. I have a couple antique horns from the 1950's from my grandfather's old Fisher hi fi, one midrange that looks like something from MASH and a tweeter. That unit did have a crossover but audio has probably come a long way since then
I would never run a compression driver without a crossover (same with a hi-fi tweeter). It will not handle the frequency response or likely the amount of power of a full range signal. Even a simple passive 1st order crossover (6dB/oct) would suffice. And a horn in a PA speaker (at least good ones) is nothing more than a compression driver, with a phase plug and some directional control (usually referred to as a horn) mounted in front of it.
The only HF device I'd ever run without a x-over is a piezo tweeter. You can't really hurt them but they sound like crap, for the most part. Only useful in bass cabs and very low end PA columns from the 70s and 80s. Every hi-fi and SR multi-element speaker with a tweeter/HF horn has a passive crossover installed, if it isn't designed to be bi-amped directly (like my Meyer UPA1-A's, which require an active crossover).
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